An international authority on near-death states, PMH Atwater is the author of 18 books, her writings have also appeared in numerous magazines and newspapers. She has lectured twice at the United Nations and guested on tv and radio talk shows such as Sally Jessy Raphael, Larry King Live, Entertainment Tonight, Regis & Kathy Lee, Geraldo, and The Shirley Show in Canada. Recently she was awarded the "Lifetime Achievement Award" from the National Association of Transpersonal Hypnotherapists and the "Outstanding Service Award" from IANDS (where she has also been a 2 term board member).
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episode66 PMH Atwater
Thu, 2/4 6:28PM • 1:33:50
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
book, near death experience, talking, people, absolutely, experience, Gary, experiencer, children, written, death experiences, research, light, life, imaginable, death, age, big, told, call
SPEAKERS
Everything Imaginable, P.M.H Atwater
Welcome to Everything Imaginable. A podcast forcurious minds, on KGRA Radio. And here is your host, Gary Cocciolillo.
Everything Imaginable
Welcome, everyone to another episode of Everything Imaginable. I'm your host, Gary Cocciolillo.. And today we have a special guest P.M.H Atwater. How are you this morning?
P.M.H Atwater
I’m just doing great.
Everything Imaginable
Thank you so much for taking the time to be on today.
P.M.H Atwater
It's just wonderful to be here.
Everything Imaginable
So, you are like the world-renowned expert on near death experience. Looks like you've written like over 20 books on this subject and have spoken in front of the United Nations [AS1]a couple times. So, this is going to be a very interesting interview. This is something that I myself am really interested in, too. So, you've had three near death experiences yourself. Is that correct?
P.M.H Atwater
In three months, three in three months? I go back there and I call it the heavenly sledgehammer effect. It that doesn’t tell you how stubborn I was before, I don't know what will. Yeah, I got hit three times.
Everything Imaginable
Wow. So what happened? What was it like?
P.M.H Atwater
It was all because of a rape. And the miscarriage and you know, all of the complications because of the miscarriage. Death number one was January 2, 1977. Death number, oh that's death number one, death number two was January 4, two days later. And then death number three, was March 29. And later that fall, I had three major relapses, one of which was adrenal failure. So yeah, 1977 wasn't really my year. I had to relearn how to crawl, how to stand and walk, how to tell the difference between left and right. How to rebuild all of my belief systems. I began all over again, Gary, from, from, you know, from crawling. I relearned everything.
Everything Imaginable
.So it was like a total reset.
P.M.H Atwater
It was a total reset. And, um, you know, he, you have this, this knowledge, this knowingness, placement of where you were, and, and what you experienced. But that's not helpful. When you can't hardly walk, when you don't know what food is, when you don't know what, you know. I didn't even understand what it was like to open up a can. And then pull out a pan and tip the can of food into the pan with the can down and then put it on burner. That had absolutely no meaning for me. And I would look at that food after it had been heated. And I would wonder, why did I do this? What is this for? So, when I say I had to begin again at ground level, I'm not kidding. What pushed me, what gave me the, the urge and the draw, and the need to get, get well, so to speak, to become like a human being again, um, was certainly what I had experienced, but especially my third one. In my third one. There was a voice that spoke to me later on in that third experience. And it wasn't like guides and guardians and angels and archangels. And you know, all that stuff that you hear. It wasn't like that at all. I was familiar with that kind of thing. From long before I ever died, but, but no, this this, this was very, very different. It's like that voice was so big. It was bigger than the universe. And that voice spoke to me and said, I quote, test revelation, you are to do the research, one book for each death. It did not show me how to do the job. But it didn't, it did specify more about the books. Book number one was not named. Book Two was Future Memory, it's out there, everybody get it. You're gonna be very surprised if you get the book Future Memory. And the third one was A Manual for Developing Humans. That is written and portrayed in fifth dimensional, as a fifth dimensional layout. So, you get everything all at once; conscious, subconscious, super conscious, all at once, all through the book. So that's going to be an adventure for everybody. It was an adventure for me to write. So, I was just kind of turned loose. I mean, that's it. That's all I had. But I was not scared. I was raised in a police station. So, I knew police investigative techniques. I knew how to do that kind of research. And a good cop, for instance, if there's an accident, you've got three witnesses, the couple go up and say, did you see anything? You never, never, never, never never use a word before the witness or the individual does. If you do if you do, that biases your work. So that's how I did my research. I never used a word before the individual did. So, my work is all groundwork. It's, some people call me the, the gumshoe of near death. I’m out there, you know people's homes, and I'm with the people. And I'm talking to everybody and anybody the neighbors, the health care givers, the experiencer. You know what, you know what really happened? And tell me about it, is one of the, you know, I love the scientific protocol. But it's one of the challenges I have with a scientific protocol. And that is, it's all biased. They begin with words, they begin with patterns. And you can't do that, at least to my notion, until you invite the experiencer in and have the experiencer tell their story their way. And then you can use words if you want to. But you know, the initial has to be the experiencers, so my research base now is nearly 5000 adults and children. I've been doing this for gee what, started in 1978. Never heard of Raymond Moody. Never heard of his book. I met Elisabeth Kubler Ross at O'Hare Airport. She had about an hour or so waiting on her plane. So, we sat down on a bench and talked like a couple of schoolgirls. And I told her all about my experiences. She identified me as a near death survivor. She never used the word experiencer. And then she told me about that pattern. And, you know, that's all I had to go on. That's, you know, I will, I walked out the door. In essence, I lived in in Boise, Idaho. So, I sold my home, walked out the door, cross the United States and began my work and Falls Church, Virginia. And I've been doing it ever since. I've written 19 books so far. I'm on. Well, 18 I began, I began my ninth, 19th one now. I'm working on a book now. So, you're talking to kind of like a scrappy Westerner who went out did her own thing. Ah, so, here I am.
Everything Imaginable
That's great. So, when you had your near death experiences What did you like, like, what was it like? What did you experience? Did you see relatives, deceased relatives or was it peaceful?
P.M.H Atwater
Well, I'll just give you kind of a brief outline rather than going in depth Um, my first one January 2, um, that was. Oh, how do I explain it? Um, I I went to the toilet, there was a lot of pain. And I miscarried in the in the toilet, rose up high on this ceiling and I kept bumping into the light bulb, I can honestly say my light was a light bulb, it was on. And I kept bumping into it like a moth drawn to a flame. And then, I mean, I couldn't understand the difference in dimension. Because I was, I was up here, you know, bumping into that light bulb. And looking down, there's a toilet, there's a bathtub, there's my bloody body. Gary, you don't become someone you are not. And I tend to be, lady clean. I am, I can see a dirt ball at 50 paces. So, I'm looking down at that bloody body and there's no way I'm going to own up to that thing is mine. Not gonna happen. Not gonna happen. So I'm up there bouncing around, I'm gonna sit on the ceiling, to try and figure out what happened. And, you know, I'm not owning up to that thing on the floor. I mean, that couldn't possibly be me. And then eventually, that was me. I was pulled back into my body. And it is interesting to me how I was pulled back. It's sort of like an, an overstretched rubber band. And suddenly, that rubber band went twang and I'm slapped back into the body, entering through the soft spot in our, in our skull. And, you know, like, the soft, soft spot, like when we were made as a baby, and being pulled back in all the way back to my toes, and having to shrink to fit back into the body. So, it's very obvious to me that we're much larger out of our body than we are in our body. In my body, I had to shrink to fit back in. And, you know, it's back to the pain and back to the mess. So yeah, I did what was difficult for me, I cleaned up my mess as best I could. never occurred to me to go to, you know, make my way to a telephone and call for help. You know, I'm a good Westerner. Westerners take care of themselves. If they've got a problem, they take care of it. And the idea
Of it and
you know, the idea of going to somebody else, or calling for help, it's just absolutely unknown. You don't do that. So, I cleaned up my mess and, and, you know, went back to bed, propped up my legs as high as I could get them and went to sleep. I'm a person that can sleep anytime, anywhere, no problem. Um, the next morning, my oldest daughter, my two daughters, were still at home, my son was gone. Um, sort of gentleman [AS2]said, you know, do you want to go to work? How are you feeling? And all I could say was, I'm not feeling too well. And so she called in, you know, to the office and then both girls went to school. Natalie was in high school. Polly was in the sixth grade. And they were gone. And it was after they were gone that I became aware of this growing pain inside my right thigh.
Um, it was just, how do you, how do you explain that kind of pain. You know, it's, It hurts so much, that if I'd had a knife I'd have cut my leg off. It was that bad.
Everything Imaginable
That’s pretty bad.
P.M.H Atwater
Yeah, and then and then only did they get through my thick head, I needed help, and, and getting to the phone. In those days, you know, you didn't have phones like you have now. We had one phone in the whole house, it was in the kitchen, it was a wall phone. So, getting to that phone involved crawling, because I couldn't walk anymore. Crawling and, and, you know, the determination to make it. I made it as far as the dining room. Hey, you know, if I got another three feet, I could have pulled that wall phone down, but I didn't make it that far. And among the things that happened to me that I left my body again, I'm discovering thought forms, what thought forms are, how they work. Um, being able to oh, one of the things that happened to me is, I went into the void. I get, I called it the void. I didn't know what else to call it. There was black eye, everything's black, black, black, black, black, the deepest black I'd ever seen. But there was something about this blackness. You know, it wasn't a scary black darkness. It wasn’t darkness, it was blackness. And, and there was nothing scary about it. But, but I noticed, you know, there was the presence in this blackness, even though there was nothing there. Of everything that had ever existed, existed now and ever would exist. Every sound, every motion, everything about what we call life, again, that had, that had ever been created, was functioning now or ever would come forward. It's just, everything was there. But there was nothing there. And then I became aware that, and I'm going to talk about this even more in the book I'm writing now. There was something there and it was the presence of what I call shimmer. You know, it, if you can think back to any time you've done a jello mold. And you've taken that jello when, when it was set, and you flipped it upside down on a plate, you know, and you're going to serve it for dinner. And you take your finger, your index finger, and, and just, just, just you, you're going to touch it. And you're just about there, just about to touch it. And there's a there's a presence. There's a shimmer. You haven't touched it yet. But there's this shimmer. And it's not really a movement. It's just a shimmer. And, and the void is absolutely full of shimmer.
Everything Imaginable
Right. It's similar to an experience that I had during an epileptic seizure. Sounds like
P.M.H Atwater
It's something like that. Tell me?
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, I was. I had a seizure and I was out for about 20 minutes. And at first it was just darkness. But then all around me, it was like I was inside, like a vortex of color and sounds and I wasn't afraid or anything like that. If anything,I, like during the experience, I was completely fascinated by like, oh, wow, this is really cool. And, and then before I know it, I heard somebody in the distance yelling, come back to me, Gary, come back to me. And it was my wife. And I opened my eyes, though by then I was already the ambulance.
P.M.H Atwater
Wow. So you, you kind of had something like this yourself?
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I wasn't dead, but maybe I was brain dead. I don't know. But, but it was a really strange experience and it definitely changed something inside of me.
P.M.H Atwater
Yeah.
Everything Imaginable
I can't put it into words.
P.M.H Atwater
I can understand that. I can feel that. You know it like you. Yeah. How do you put that into words? What words are there? It's like in that blackness, in that shimmer, there is everything. Everything is there, and everything that's going to be, everything. All of our futures, our nows our past, everything is there. But there's absolutely nothing there.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, it's amazing. And it also, when you mentioned like the out of body experience when you're looking down on yourself. When I was younger, my dad had a, well I wasn’t that much younger, but my dad had like a really bad heart attack once. And he was dead for, I don’t know, maybe 10 minutes before they resuscitated him. And, you know, I was sort of like the kooky son. I asked him I said Dad, what was it like being dead? And he talked, hesaid no one’s asked me that. But, you know, it was, I was floating above my body watching them trying to bring me back.
P.M.H Atwater
Ah, ha. So he had a near death experience.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, definitely.
P.M.H Atwater
Absolutely. So you got to hear about those quite young.
Everything Imaginable
Yes.
P.M.H Atwater
Yeah. Well, I'll tell ya, um, that was an incredible experience, it certainly changed, changed how I viewed life and how I viewed myself and how I felt. But for me, um, you know, I went through a lot of rigorous exercises and everything I could do to bring back my right thigh. Turned out there was a, a very large, huge blood clot there, that I had burst, because I didn't know what it was. So, I was pounding on it, worst thing I could have done, and made everything very much worse. So, I went through a long period of, of being crippled of being, you know, having to relearn everything. And you know, the experience was wonderful. It was great, but it wasn't great. I mean, it was absolutely wonderful. But, you know, the life I had now wasn't wonderful. So how do you pull the two together, and I was having a lot of problem doing that. And then, and then I had a third experience. And that experience was different. All my experiences were different. They were not the same. In the third one, I left the planet. I absolutely left the planet. And I could see Earth getting smaller and smaller and smaller. As I was zooming out in this space. And I came to this, I call it a lip of light. It was like, it was like, it was like in the universe. There is a lip of light that will open if you get near it and I got near it and it opened and I was sucked in and, and in that place I saw what I'd seen. r In my near death experience. Well, I mean, I thought that was my near death experience, I saw and it was like giant, I call them cyclones inverted over each other in an hourglass shape. And out of the middle where this where the tip should have touched but didn't came this incredible, pulsating power. I mean, I hate, I hesitate to even call it power because I don't know what it was. And it just kept coming and coming and coming and my, my son was home by then. And he was my, my son is a great big Taurus. If you know anything about this sign, astrological sign of Taurus. I have, my son has like, I think it's four planets in Taurus. And in the 10th house, I mean, is he ever a Taurus? A great big guy. So he's out, out at the Black Angus bar, tossing a few with friends. And he told me about this a year later, he said, um, he suddenly slammed down his mug, taut and faced his friends and said, my mother's in trouble. I have to go home and help my mother. And he jumped up that barstool, ran out to the car. That was my car, drove home and found my body. And, yeah, you have to understand how we raise our children to understand his response. When he found my body, he did not go to the telephone. Instead, he went within himself and asked, what shall I do? And the voice within him said, talk, it doesn't matter what you say, just keep talking. And that's what he did. We know now later, that had he gone to the phone and call for help, I would have not made it. I would have died. So, he did the absolutely perfect thing for him to do. He went within, got the guidance, and then talked. And it was his voice that I heard and followed his voice back. So that was, um, that was an, that was just, wow. It was just wow. Um,
Everything Imaginable
I can relate.
P.M.H Atwater
Oh just like, yeah. The coup de grace, if you will happen a few weeks later. Um, my friends were very concerned that I really wasn't healing like I ought to heal. By then I had learned that no, you don't go to an MD. If you want a real healing. You go to, well, I went to a naturopath. But you go to a natural practitioner of some guide, that is good, you know, as you know, has good credentials. I went to a naturopath. And it was him, Dr. William Reimer, who enabled me through lots of exercise, lots of different techniques to begin to come back, but I didn't come back far enough to satisfy him or my friends. And, and here, here's the little coincidence. Yeah. Our synchronicity strikes again. By then it was around, oh, let's say November 3, November 4 1977. And in Seattle, Washington, they were having The Mind Miraculous Symposium in Seattle Center and it was a big one, you know, Dr. Elisabeth Kubler Ross was there, Dr. Boo joy, [AS3]on and on and on. And they, my friends and doctor felt that what I needed was a change of scenery. So, they tracked me up in a van. Yeah. Can you imagine a doctor getting up at five in the morning to give you a shot, a bunch of medicine just so you can, you know, you can go to a conference? Well, he did. And I made it. And, and the first speaker paid for my trip. And that speaker was Dr. William Tiller, a physicist at Stanford. And I can't tell you, the name of his talk was The Eternal Now. I can't tell you a thing the man said until the end of his talk. And he made the statement that it is his belief that everything happens at the same time in the same place, that there is simultaneity. That all is simultaneous. And so, he flashed up on his giant screen his chart of what his math, his physics and led him to believe is real. It is the eternal now, what it looks like. And he flashed up on that screen exactly what I had seen, exactly in my third near death experience. And I jumped up off that chair. And, and I and I went into the hall and, and just collapsed under a wall light and just curled up in the fetal position, rocking and crying and, and saying out loud, I'm not crazy. I'm not crazy. He saw it too, he knows the truth. I'm not crazy. I'm not crazy. I'm not crazy. And from that moment on, I got Well, I mean, I mean, it was all over.
Everything Imaginable
That's intense.
P.M.H Atwater
I was able to come back and then live my life. And it was after that the year later that I went to, um, I went to visit my aunt and uncle in Chicago. And while I was there, at O'Hare Airport, I saw Elizabeth, Dr. Elizabeth Kubler Ross, walked up, introduced myself. And she was, you know, way, way, way late. Her plane was, to go to Germany. So, we sat down on a bench and visited like a couple of school girls, and I told her about all three of my experiences. She called me a near death survivor, she never used the word experiencer. And then she told me about the now famous patterns. She didn't mention anybody else, just gave me the pattern. And I felt like I was being instructed, like, this is what I need to know. Because this is my research, to seek out people who have had, who have undergone the near-death phenom, phenomenon, and find out more about it, in especially how people were responding to it, and how it changed their life, if it did. Just seek out the fuller dynamics of the phenomenon. And I knew, you know, I had Elizabeth words, and I had my background in police work. And that's when, gee it was just like, what was it a couple of months later, I sold my house. The children went off doing their own thing. My youngest chose to live with her father, she left. My son joined the Coast Guard, my oldest daughter decided to live her own life her own way. And I know I walked out on, on, on my life. I did. I walked out on Idaho, the West, went first to watch the sun set silver over the Pacific, and meandered across the United States. wound up in Falls Church, Virginia. watching the sunrise golden over the Atlantic. And that's where I began my work. No, I had no help. No, I had no money. I had only, well, you know what jobs I could get. Um, and it just happened. People learned about me I gave talks for a while. People kept coming to me and coming to me and I met a particular professor that taught in the Shenandoah Valley and he made certain that I had a lot of meetings and I had a lot of talks that I could give. And that started it. And then I moved to Roanoke, Virginia. And that is where I met and married my husband. And that's where I began because, I, the job I had, I flew all over everywhere. So, I found experiences absolutely everywhere. To show you how bizarre it was. I mean, it was bizarre, Gary. I was working a job in, you know, I worked for an interconnect company before ma bell. So, so I'm dealing with telephones and switching systems and computers and that kind of thing, at the beginning of when this all happened, and to show you just how, how absolutely bizarre this was, I was sent to do a job in Macon, Georgia. I mean, we're talking about Idaho, Idaho me. And I'm in Macon, Georgia. That was an experience in itself. And I had a coffee break. So, I walked over to this truck stop. And I was just reading a paperback. And I was sitting out in the middle of the floor, there was hardly anybody here a table, chairs. And this guy walks up to me. I swear it he wide, as wide as, as he was tall, big guy,. He walks up to me and says lady. anybody sitting in that chair with you? I said no, no. May I sit there? I thought for a minute, I thought, Well, sure. Okay. You can sit there. So this guy sits down, puts these arms on the table, looks at me straight in the eye. And he says, I want you to know, I still drink and I still chase women. But I want you to know all about the time I died. And he goes through this long spiel about his death, and what it was like for him afterward. And then he got up and left.
Everything Imaginable
That’s so strange.
P.M.H Atwater
Yeah, yeah. That kind of thing happened to me, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times. No matter where I was. In the Central States, the eastern states, didn't matter. That kind of thing happened over and over and over again. And I finally decided that I must be wearing some kind of sign on my back, that tells everybody, you know, tell me all about your near-death experience. Because yeah, I’d go up in an elevator and people you know, tell me about their near-deathexperience. I get in a taxi-cab. I mean, it didn’t matter. I know this one time in in Washington, DC. I was, you know, getting in this cab. And the driver, I think he must have been from Haiti or somewhere. And had the darkest skin I've ever seen in my life. I've just never seen that, a man that dark before. He was a wonderful guy. Um, he looked at me. And he says, oh, he pointed at me looked at me. And he pointed at me and says, oh, you died too and now I can tell you all about when I died. He didn't know me. I didn't know him. And this I mean, year after year, I mean, this is, later on many years later, I did buy some ads. I did write some articles, and then invited people to get a hold of me after, you know, at the end of the article. So, I did do some of that. But clearly, about 66 to 65% of all of my research came from that strange way of people just coming up to me and telling me their story.
Everything Imaginable
It’s incredible. It's amazing. It's like something connected everybody with the same experience.
P.M.H Atwater
They saw something in me. I didn't know was there.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah.
P.M.H Atwater
I mean, here I am in a taxi-cab. And I'm in. I'm in Minneapolis, Minnesota. And I'm driving to, the cab drivers driving me to a job. And I'm a very curious person. So, I usually talk to the cabbies, the drivers and I want to know about the city, the tax base, the various colleges, universities, I want to know all about the people there. And this guy got tired of my questions. And he finally said to me, lady, I'm from Egypt. The only reason that I'm here is to take classes at such and such a college. But he says, I can tell you all about the time I died. This guy from Egypt, who's driving a taxi-cab tells me all about his near-death experience. So, you know, it was that bizarre, Gary. And it was day after day, week, after week, month after month, year after year. Um, you know, what can I say? I did my job.
Everything Imaginable
And what have you learned through all this?,
P.M.H Atwater
Oh, what Haven't I learned?
Everything Imaginable
Exactly. Yeah, that's true.
P.M.H Atwater
I mean, that's a silly question, Gary. What haven’t I learned?
Everything Imaginable
Absolutely.
P.M.H Atwater
I guess, among what I can offer is this, that we are all more powerful, more special, and more wonderful than we can ever imagine. That we all have the power to heal. We all have the ability to learn and grow and become more than we are. Um, I learned, I learned that we human beings are just incredible critters. And that this world we're living in, is part of us. It's absolutely part of us. It's like, it's like, everything is part of us. And we're part of everything else. We can go through all kinds of ideas and visions and dreams about the different levels on the planet and the different levels to consciousness. And, you know, this means this and that means that and met Saint Germain and, you know, all this kind of stuff and, and you're guided and, and, and led, and your guidance helps you this way or that way, and that you're, you're psychic, and you can see and read all this. And all that's true. Butthere's a lot more beyond all of that.
Everything Imaginable
There's more beyond that?
P.M.H Atwater
Yeah. And the longer I live, the more convinced I am, that we don't even have a clue as to how, how wondrous it all is, yeah. I mean, certainly, it's true. And if we're going to talk about after-effects of near-death experiences, it is true. That we have physiological after effects, we have psychological after-effects. Most people are just familiar with the psychological ones, like you know, we come back more loving and more psychic, and, and more creative and more informed and that you want to, you really want to get involved in whatever you can do to help people and help the world and, and you want to get involved. to whatever extent you can, in helping the world be a better place. And, and physiologically, it is true that it changes brain structure and brain function I'm talking there's a logical here, it changes brain structure and brain function. It changes the nervous system. It changes the digestive system, it changes skin sensitivity. So, we're talking about definable changes in the physiological structure of the human body. We're, we're defining and saying that many have electrical sensitivity. Many began, begin abstracting, may develop synesthesia. Synesthesia is multiple sensing, it's part of the limbic system in the brain. So, for instance, the average experiencer will not buy a picture of, for what it looks like, they will buy a picture for how it sounds. So, we're talking about multiple sensing. Let me give you a quick demo. A quick example here, of that. I was born with synesthesia. No, I was not a child experiencer, I was simply born with it. So, I was the only child in the first grade where I where I was, in Twin Falls, Idaho, who could smell color, see music and hear numbers. Now, back then, everybody, especially my teacher, and the principal thought I was lying. Um, and my punishment for being a liar was to have to sit in on a tall stool in front of the class, with a tall, comical hat that said, dunce on it. And I was punished in that way over and over and over again. My mother was called into the school, I think, two or three times by the principal, because he wanted me kicked out of school. Thank God, my mother held on and kept me in school. But at the end of school, I was so angry. I was just so angry, because I always told the truth. And I was never believed. And I was so angry that I decided that all adults are stupid and I was never going to be an adult when I grew up. And that really sort of, might have been a very wonderful thing, because I became, I became absolutely dedicated to research at that point. Because I didn't believe anybody. I did my first double blind study at, at, with a control group at the age of five. So, so I was always very curious kid. Wanted, I wanted to know why, why, why. And after the first grade, it became absolutely necessary for my well, wellbeing, and for my good that somehow, some way, I make sense of this incredible world we live in, and I literally tore everything apart. And so, I spent my grade school years, and even junior high, which you now call Middle School, just dissecting everything, got myself in a lot of trouble. But I wouldn't quit, I wouldn't quit, even into high school and quit. Because what people told me wasn't true, or part of it wasn't true. And I've been studying people to see how they walk. Okay, that's how they walk here. I would, I've been studying clothes and what people wore. Why are they wearing that? Um, colors and everything. I was just dissecting everything. So, you can say, looking back, that maybe I was prepared for this kind of research, by birth. I was just born different. And so, I grew up being a very different kind of person. And after my death, I took on the labs and became a full-time researcher. And you got to be fair, at least know that what has propelled me has been that voice, athat voice. Doing the work I have done, to the extent I have done, in the way I have done it. There is nobody else on this planet who has done the work I have done. There isn't anybody. There's some people that came kind of close, but nobody has dissected what I saw is I did, there just isn't anybody. And, and what always kept me going, was that voice, always that voice. Because I knew I was doing what I was told to do. I was doing my job. So, when I was attacked so many times by, you know, the researchers and scientists and doctors and I mean, hey, that went on for years and years and years. Shish, there always was that voice and, and, you know, I'm doing my job. And I kept doing my job. I was torn to pieces, but I kept doing my job. And because I did, Pirn Van Lommel in Holland, picked up my work, some of my work. And in his incredible study, it was done in the Netherlands, I think it was like 30 hospitals or something. Um, it was written up in Lancet magazine, Lancet Journal, which is a big, big get on this planet. And my name was in there. He took some of my work and, and used it. And, and, and that became part of his, his work, and he was able to prove I was right. So, I'm in Lancet medical journal, you know? I mean, I won an Oscar.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah
P.M.H Atwater
I won an Oscar. I appeared in December 15. I think it was 2001. So I, I told, I told everybody that year I won an Oscar for Christmas. And, you know, I gotta say right now, that, that my latest book, I'm The Forever Angels: Near Death Experiences in Childhood, and Their Lifelong Impact. Please, everybody, get that book and read that book. I did, I did what nobody else has done. Nobody. I concentrated on near-death experiences between birth and age of five. Um, and I found out that, that that marker holds true as a challenge to what we think we know about the near-death experiences, because kids that long, who had no before, do not experience the near-death experience as any other age group. So, when we're talking about the near-death experience, if you really want to know about the near-death experience, you got to talk to the little ones. And I and I did something else in that, but because I originally did the research on children in the 90s. And that book is the new children and near-death experiences. And then my age group was between birth and age 15 years. But the teens and tweens, yeah, I didn't get hardly any of them. Most of them started about the age of seven on down. So, I was able to take that research that I did with a lot of the buttons [AS4]and use it with the current one now with these little ones. The youngest I actually worked with was four years old. And then it went up to maybe early 20s, maybe early 30s. So, so these are people looking forward in their life. This last one that I did a few years ago, just a few years ago. I went after that group, you know, added between birth and the age of five Who are now in a 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. So, I asked them to look back, you know, the first group were looking forward, this group, I'm asking them to go back. And they have to be able to verify having had a near death experience in those days, and believe it or not, some could. And I said to them, I said to them, did having a near death experience that young make any difference in your life. So basically, I was asking for an essay. And I was absolutely, thunderstruck by what I got and it's gonna, it's just gonna blow the whole thing wide open. Because not only do they have, you know, the same physiological and psychological after effects, but those after effects increase with time. So, we're talking about people who grow up in a very, very different way, than any other child, period, end of story. They're totally different. Let me just quickly go through some of those differences. In other words, there's no contrast for these kids. Some of them have a sense of reincarnation, that is to say, having lived a life before, but very, very few, they come in, knowing that they're part of the life continuum. They come in still in the continuum. So they're looking at what we call life as being that stream, that sometimes you, you know, sometimes it has a little dip in it, that's called a life, then you come back to do the continuum, the little dip, and you come back to the continuum. But you're part of that continuum, you're not who you are what you lived before, you are part of that continuum. So, they're very curious about what we call life, jobs, what you do in life, all this kind of stuff. They want to learn that. In my book, there's a whole chapter on historical cases. It's amazing how many of get into science, how many of them get into, into history, making sayings, identifying things, with this group, when I'm looking at all of them, so doesn't matter the age of the child, 90% do not bond with their parents. That doesn't mean they don't love them. They just don't bond with them. They, they look at life extremely different. Let me go on here with some of these differences that are absolutely going to shock you? And, and I'm going to say 74%, 74%, 74% of the, of these children after they grew, became very successful. Some of them became millionaires. I mean, very, very successful, as 74%, that's a big number. And so, the total group I'm working here with is 397 people. So, there's a major study. 74% become very successful in life. That same 74%, now you know, I asked you to remember that 74%, become either suicide prone or are often, often deal with suicide ideation. That is to say PTSD versus NDEs. This is what we don't talk about in the near-death family.T the researchers, the various other people, they don't talk about it, they don't admit it, even with our adult experiences, many of them are, deal with suicide ideation. Not that many. In my research base, about 5%, not that many. But the children do. It takes the average adult, seven to 10 years to integrate their experience, it takes the average child 20 to 40 years, because children do not integrate, they compensate. So, it's a whole different, different animal, if you will, and how they handle that. Let me just quote some of this research here. In my, in my first study, well, yeah, I've already done that. Yeah. When we're, when we're looking at all these cases, so that's 397 cases, 30, 34%, were positive about having their near death experience. 61% were negative. Um, and it's, you know, it's all about home. Um, we, we don't, we, you know, we don't capture this, we don't recognize this, we don't, we're not open to this. That for a child, when they think about something like, you know, near-death experiences, to them, when they were in this love filled world, just wonderful, beautiful world, they were not breathing. Now that they're breathing, they're no longer in that beautiful love filled world. So, the average child, for them, the light bulb experience is oh, the way to get back to that wonderful, beautiful loving world is a stop my breathing. They don't think in terms of that's bad, or that will upset people, or that might hurt their family, you know, that's not in their mind at all. Their mind is, I want to get back to where I was before. So, it is very innocent, I just want to get back, it's not a matter of destroying anything. You just want to go back to that love. And in my first book on this, The New Children and Near Death Experiences, I’ve a very large resource section in the back. And one of the things I recommend that in that book, and I recommend always, always, always, everywhere, is teach child experiencers visualization as the most powerful, do teach them that in visualization, they can go back there, and stay for a little while, and then come back to their bodies. They want to stay there. Just be there for a little while and come back to their bodies. Because this is where they are now. And they have jobs to do here. But they can go back every once in a while. And by doing that, it cuts that longing, oh ever so much. They don't have that longing that, that desire to kill themselves or to go to the, you know, decision side [AS5]saying rather they can use visualization. So, you know, once we open this door to the little bitty ones, then we're finding out all kinds of stuff. You know that we didn't ever think of before..
Everything Imaginable
So, it really makes it easier for them to cope with that. Is that like, maybe a desire, it’s like, almost want to like return home? Because like, we need to have that experience as a child, and it's like, well, you know, this life is really hard, I just want to go back home.
P.M.H Atwater
Yes, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. Um, and it's a big deal, it's not a little deal, it's a big deal. So, I really encourage everybody, buy the book, or get the book, The Forever Angels, if you can just remember that, The Forever Angels: Near Death Experiences in Childhood and Their Lifelong Impact. You're going to be, you're going to be amazed at what's in that book, it's just going to, it's going to surprise you, it's gonna shock you. It's gonna turn you, it's gonna turn you around, and how you look at near-death experiences.
Everything Imaginable
It's really interesting to be able to go back, because, you know, a child's perception of it is completely untainted with, you know, all the programming that we experienced as adults, too. So, it's probably a more pure type of recall.
P.M.H Atwater
Oh, absolutely. With children that, they, many of them see three lights, they don't see one, they see three. They describe them as, there's this one light that is so piercing and so strong, and so big, and it doesn't have any particular color, it's just piercing and its strength. And then there's this other light, this black light, or dark light, often, often is described as having a purple tinge just in it. And then there's this white light or bright light. And sometimes it has silver or gold in it. But, but, but there's this, there's obviously for a child, three lights. Um, and so I, you know, with kids a lot and I said, well describe these lights to me, what do you think they are? They said, well, the white light, that people talk so much about, that's father light. The black light, that's mother light. And that piercing strong light, that's God's light. And Father light and mother light, they come from God's light. So, when we're talking about near death experiences as a white light experience, no, it's not. It is certainly a light experience, it’s an incredibly bright light. But we can't say it's white, or black or any others, specific color. What it is, is, is powerful. It's powerful. And when the kids describe it, it’ll just blow your mind that black light is so healing and so wonderfully comfortable to children. Oh, they love that black guy. In in one of the books that I've written, The Big Book of Near Death Experiences, that's now owned by the International Association of Near Death Studies. Oh, we call it IANDS and you know, just going by the initials, IANDS. I gave them my copyright so that they would own the book, not me. So, whenever you buy the big book, the, the, the royalties go to IANDS. They don't go to me. That's the only encyclopedia ever written on the near-death experience, in every aspect of it. Suicide, you know, everything is in that book. And in that book is a drawing of a man who was in the hospital and that, he wants to have surgery the next morning, very, very serious surgery. And during the night, sometime during the night, yeah, evening or night. He was visited by the black light, it came to him, not a white light, black light and engulfed him. And he was, you know, total peace in that light. The next morning, when they x rayed him again, they found that the growth they had to cut out was completely gone and disappeared. That black light, just cured him. And you hear this again and again. And again, there's something about that light and it also has to do with intelligence. I haven't talked at all about intelligence with kids who have these kind of experience, experiences. Almost all of them have, have greater intelligence because of it. You know, it directly affects brain and brain structure. And, and I think it's, it's, it's, it's just giving them a boost or big jump into higher states of mind. Because the, the average child experiencer, very, very young, are abstracting by the first grade. Now, most adults, you don't begin to abstract, until really college or, you know, the higher grades maybe into college. These are kids, they're abstracting in the first grade. Let me give you an example. There's this, this one boy in my research base. It was in the first grade. I don't know. Yeah, he's like, six, barely six, he drowned halfway through. And when he came back to school, what are they reading in the first grade? You know, See Spot Run, Dick and Jane, this little kid goes up to the teacher. And, and, and.And he's now reading Greek mythology and fully understands it. And he goes up to his teacher and he says, why was the book Robinson Crusoe ever written? It's like, twang! what is this?
So, she got to, you know, toss him off into a genius level or higher, in an intelligent, intelligence level class, because it's, you know, obviously, he's outgrown his class he was in. And we find this often that these kids are abstract. I mean, that's abstraction. And most of them are abstracting by the first grade. Now, Gary, what school in the United States of America is prepared for first graders who can abstract? Just so you know, they go through these kinds of things, the Intel, Intel, intelligence level is just off the charts. With my, just overall, when these kids are old enough to take the standard IQ test, 48%, 48% between birth and the age of 7, 48% who were getting scores of 150 to 160. The average teacher will say, well, genius starts about 132, 136. These are Kids, you know, 151 60. Now, if they had a near-death experience before age six, so we're getting into the five-year-olds. That jumpsteps, jumps in the IQ score. up to around 81%. Look at that.
Everything Imaginable
That's huge.
P.M.H Atwater
Now, if they had their experience between birth and the age of 15, 16 months, so we're talking about babies. If they had it then, their scores are in the two hundreds. Especially if they had a black light experience instead of a white light experience. There's something about the black light that heals, that comforts and jumps your intelligence. It's just, it just blows you away, Gary.
Everything Imaginable
Absolutely.
P.M.H Atwater
The numbers blow you away. You know, you're looking at this stuff. And you say, oh, my God Dear god in Heaven, what's going on here?
Everything Imaginable
It's amazing that you put all this together.
P.M.H Atwater
Oh hey, I’m good. You know? I've going for it. And I and I did, I did. I just didn't investigate it to the very ninth degree. And you're going to get all that in the book. You're just going to get blown away with what's in there. Um, what's happened since the books come out, and it's been out about a year, well, not a year yet, it can came out in December. I had a phone call, oh maybe about a month ago, from a police officer in New York City. So, we're talking about a hardened cop. He's crying. He got a hold of the book, read it. And he said, no one has ever been able to tell me why I'm so different from anybody else. Now, I know. He's one of them. It just,ah, he's just crying and crying.
Everything Imaginable
Wow.
P.M.H Atwater
Another woman sent me a drawing of her conception.
Everything Imaginable
Uh huh.
P.M.H Atwater
She drew a picture of it. And, and showed it to her parents. She was absolutely right, much to their embarrassment. She was there at her conception and saw the whole thing. One of the cases that I covered was a particular girl, who had her near-death experience inside her inside her mother's womb. Listen to this, inside her mother's womb, as she was trying to be born while her mother was attempting suicide. So, I mean, I've had cases that just will flip your wigs. One right after another. But you know, a lot of those that, you know, maybe aren't quite that eye-catching, but all of them, meaningful in that these children in growing up, had to figure out how to grow up. Because most of these kids know more than their parents do. They know more than the teacher does. School for them is boring. Then they don't know how to how to go out on dates. They don't understand the dating process. Let me give you an example of this one girl said, why should I go out on this date? I know what's going to happen before, before it does, you know, I mean, why should I bother? So many of them sense or see or pre-live the future before it occurs. That's why I'm saying everybody, buy that book, Future Memory. So many near-death experiences, adults and children, as part of what they experience is what I call future memory or pre-living the future before it occurs. I'm not talking about clairvoyance, I'm not talking about any of the Claire's, I'm talking about people who live it, pre-live it. Not just see it, actually live it, every part. Live it, before it occurs. And if you want to know how that occurs, again, get the book Future Memory. Now, let me warn you about these two books. The special ones that voice told me to do Future memory’s, not a book. It is a labyrinth. It is a real labyrinth. Every sentence, every paragraph, every page is part of the math I used to construct the labyrinth, it is a book labyrinth, not a land labyrinth. So, it is a real labyrinth, you read through it like you would walk through a labyrinth. That is to say, you can’t jump around. Because if you do you defeat the purpose of the labyrinth, you have to go straight through and like a labyrinth, it will twist and turn on you. So, so you have to stay, keep on the path. The purpose of the book is to help you move up to the next highest level possible for you at that time in your development. So, it works on your brain and your mind and your consciousness as you read it. That's the purpose of the book, Future Memory. Now a manual for developing humans. We all need that right? Right now. I mean, absolutely, right now, right now, right now. Because the book has a fifth dimensional format. It has six sections. In every section, in every part of every section, you get the conscious, subconscious superconscious rendering at once. So, you get it all at once. And that's the way the fifth dimension is. You get it all at once, intention rules. And we seem to forget that years ago in history, you read your history about it, but years ago, when people, people regarded hu, hu, as a sound of God. That's the sound God makes, hu. So human was God, man, God, woman, you know, you got human you got whether they're male or female, so, god man, God, woman. So, anybody that's a human is a godly. And they were very focused on that. That was very true. For hundreds of years, I don't know how many years, the idea of hu was the sound of God. So, I mean, how many of us are ever taught how to be who we are? Who we are is, we can go to the Bible, and it says very clearly you, you can go to other texts as well, other religions as well. And it says very clearly, who are you? It says very clearly, ye are gods, ye are gods in the making. The near-death experience Kundalini breakthroughs, other types of spiritual transformations, all take us to that same place where we come to realize that we are co-creators with the creators. That's who we are, we are co-creators with the creator. Well, how many? How many of us learned that in school?
Everything Imaginable
I didn't.
P.M.H Atwater
I mean, you don't learn that in school. You don't learn to be who you are. And who you are, is a co-creator with the creator, or as it says, in the Bible, ye are gods in the making. So, the whole purpose of a manual for developing humans is, to help you be who you are. So, it's full of all kinds of simple, easy, funny exercises or stories, and has got form drawings in it, that help you to realize that any part of your life, any part of being human, is part of your function as a co-creative being. So, it takes you through the whole thing, in easy, easy ways. There's nothing hard about it. To help, help you realize who you are and why you're here. And what it’ss all for. What's it all about, Alfie?
Everything Imaginable
What information to have.
P.M.H Atwater
It's all it's all there, a manual for developing humans. So, I did my job. I did what the voice like no another asked me to do. Still doing it. The book I'm writing now is more personal, never written a personal book. Well, I, I've got to correct that. And say, the first little book I ever wrote was, I Died Three Times in 1977.
Don’t you love the title?
You know, I Died Three Times in 1977. And you can still get it on, on Amazon.com. The complete story. And that's the first little book I ever wrote. And, you know, I, just 50 copies and just sold them wherever, at in different truck stops, and they could sell them and one of those books happened to, happen to make it to Hartford, Connecticut in a bookstore. How it got there, nobody knows. At the time when Kenneth Green was in that bookstore and saw that book and thought, oh, what did inofficial and, and traced me down by telephone. And it was Kenneth Green who brought me into the full research community, because I didn't know it existed. I never heard of Raymond Moody. Never heard, you know? I learned about the near-death experience from Elizabeth. Um, so that's how that happened. But anyway, after I wrote that little book, and all the other books were about the research I did, and I'm going to share with you something really dumb here, really dumb. When I first started, started writing the books and getting my work out, I;d never heard of an abstract and never heard of a paper. Didn't know what those were. I mean, dear Gary, my idea of higher education was how high you can clear a corral fence when a bull was chasing you. That’s higher education. So I had to learn what an abstract was, what a paper was, how do you write them? You know what, for what for? And, and so, you know, I started learning to do those. I've done a number of them now. But I mean, I didn't know any of that. All I knew was that voice. What it told me to do. What I learned from Elizabeth, that training I had had in childhood, in police stations, that's all I had.
Everything Imaginable
And that all came together for you
P.M.H Atwater
And that produced the work I've done, not, I mean to this day none of my books are really sold that much. I wish they would. I wish more people would buy my books. My money has come from my own pocket and my husband's pocket, you know, I just still keep doing my work because I was told to do my work,
Everything Imaginable
Well you've definitely made an impact because I've certainly I've heard about you from more than one of my guests. So, you're definitely popular with the community.
P.M.H Atwater
Oh, well. what can I say?
Everything Imaginable
That’s groundbreaking. You broke the ground, really.
P.M.H Atwater
Yeah. Well, that's, that's my story.
Everything Imaginable
That is fantastic. Thank you for coming on today. And as that was an honor. really to get to talk to you. after hearing about you from some of my other guests. I finally get to speak with you and do you, this interview was awesome
P.M.H Atwater
Well, tell everybody that I produce a free monthly newsletter and anybody can get it but, but it's only for the curious and if you're not curious, you won't be interested in my newsletter, but if you are then you get on my website pmhatwater.com and go over to newsletter, and in the newsletter used to sign up, there's an archive if you if you want to go through past issues, but you might be interested in that because I'm, I'm interested in lif I’m interested in all kinds of things. And so if you're curious like me.
Everything Imaginable
I know my listeners are curious cos name of the podcast is Everything Imaginable a podcast for curious minds. So, I'm sure my listeners are definitely curious people.
P.M.H Atwater
Thank you for having me on your show.
Everything Imaginable
Thank you.
P.M.H Atwater
And have a good day, Have a good life.
Everything Imaginable
I will. You too.
P.M.H Atwater
Blessings. Goodbye, Goodbye.
Everything Imaginable
Thank you for listening to Everything Imaginable on KGRA Radio. You can meet Gary at Everything Imaginable2020.com or email him at everythingimaginable2020@gmail.com. He's also on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. You can buy t shirts, coffee mugs and other merchandise to support the cost of producing this podcast. Click on the merchandise link at the top of his page. www.everythingimaginable2020.com. Oh, yeah, I almost forgot. You can buy his book, Enlightenment Guaranteed. It's the only book on Zen that you'll ever need. And it's on Amazon. It will change your life. Because remember, everything that exists is, was first imagined. Hey, if you love what you listen to, don't forget, rate, review and subscribe.