After graduating from the Eastman School of Music, Jim Willis was a high school band and orchestra teacher during the day, a symphony trombonist on the weekends, a jazz musician at night, and a choral conductor on Sunday mornings, before earning his Master's Degree in religion and entering the Protestant ministry for forty years. The author of twelve books on religion and spirituality, he served as an adjunct college professor in the fields of world religions and instrumental music while working part time as a carpenter, the host of his own drive-time radio show, an arts council director, and guest lecturer, speaking about topics ranging from historical studies to contemporary spirituality. His teaching career produced both the comprehensive one-volume encyclopedia of religion, The Religion Book and Armageddon Now, written with his wife, Barbara. Concern for spiritual growth in contemporary society prompted his book Faith, Trust & Belief, while his love for long-distance bicycling led him to make several cross-country bike trips and inspired his biking trilogy, Journey Home, Snapshots and Visions, and Savannah: A Bicycle Journey Through Time and Space. Upon retirement he was determined to confront the essential spirituality that has inspired humankind since the very beginnings of time. The result of this quest is chronicled in his books, The Dragon Awakes: Rediscovering Earth Energy, Ancient Gods and Supernatural Gods. His recent books include Lost Civilizations, from Visible Ink Press, The Quantum Akashic Field, from Findhorn/Inner Traditions, and Hidden History: Ancient Aliens and the Suppressed Origins of Civilization, also from Visible Ink Press. A frequent contributor to podcasts and radio shows both internationally and nationally, including George Noory with Coast to Coast AM, Cliff Dunning with Earth Ancients Radio, Rex Bear with The Leak Project, The Paranormal Podcast with Jim Harold, Exploring the Bizarre with Tim Beckley & Tim Swartz, as well as Cosmic Questions with Cheryl Costa, Energy Stew with Peter Roth, Rafa Martinelli, Dark Sun Rising and others. Recent interviews are listed on Jim's YouTube channel, as well as on our Features page. Please use the contact form to schedule an interview. https://www.jimwillis.net/
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Episode 37 Jim Willis
Thu, 2/4 6:22PM • 1:37:30
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, life, experience, talking, book, discovered, years, body, epileptic seizure, find, imaginable, reality, happening, entities, days, music, thinking, source, duality, world
SPEAKERS
Everything Imaginable
Everything Imaginable
Welcome to Everything Imaginable, a podcast for curious minds. KGRA radio. Welcome, everyone to another episode of Everything Imaginable. I'm your host, Gary Cocciolillo. And today we have a very special guest, Jim Willis. He is the author of Hidden History, Ancient Aliens and the Suppressed Origins of Civilization. And also The Quantum Akashic Field: A Guides to Out-of-Body Experience for for the Astral Traveler. And I believe he's written 10 other books added to that. Thank you for being on my show.
Jim Willis
Oh, thanks, Gary. Good to be with you. Good to be with you.
Everything Imaginable
So, um, you know, like, actually, you were a Protestant Minister for 40 years. Is that how you started?
Jim Willis
Well, it's hard to say. I was a, I was a Protestant minister. Like, like you say, for 40 years. And when I went into ministry, back in the early 70s, I was under the impression as most of us were, most of us young people going to seminary we, we had this idea that life was going to be this perpetual spiritual quest, you know, we were going to be searching for our Holy Grail. And we'd be surrounded by a community of like-minded individuals. And we went off to seminary expecting this great illuminating spiritual journey. And, of course, it just doesn't work out that way. When you go to your first, you go to your first church, you know, you're a pastor of a church and, and you understand that, like everything else, it's, it's a job, you have to be concerned about the next Sunday. You have to be concerned about the next committee meeting, or the next counseling session or the next deadline. And pretty soon before you know it, man, 40 years has come and gone. And you realize that you've been talking about God, you've been talking about spirit, and you haven't been really experiencing it. You know, other people talk about going to church or having this great, illuminating spiritual awakening at a church. And when you're leading the church service, you don't do that. Because your job is to make sure things get done at the right time and at the right order, and in the right volume, and all that kind of thing, and so you're, you're not really entering into it, you're leading it. And that kind of just sums it up. You know, 40 years later, I realized I had been talking about God all my life. And I hadn't been really having the experience that I was after. So, when it came time to retire, my wife and I decided we had an agenda, we were going to go to the woods. We moved up to South Carolina, bought a little piece of property that was just pure woods. Matter of fact, we had to build the road back to it. And I had to build the house. I was part time Carpenter while I was in ministry as well. So, I built the house and we decided to spend one year, we were going to spend one year living out in the woods, watching the leaves change color, and we were going to, for lack of a better term try to experience God but I didn't want
But by then, you know, I come to the point where I wasn't even really comfortable using the word God anymore, because I know what I mean when I say God, but it's a word that's got so much baggage on it. So, I started thinking about other words like source or getting back to the spirit, you know, and we, we came out here for one year and, and now it's been almost 11, We're still, we're still here, started writing some books. And I came out here with, with a, I even had a scripture verse in my mind. In the Old Testament, there's a wonderful story where Jacob and Esau the two brothers have this falling out and Jacob is forced to flee for his life because he defrauded his brother Esau out of his birthright. And so, he fled for his life. And if the story is historically accurate, he probably went up in the area right now that is Anatolia, somewhere near where Gobekli Tepe was discovered in Turkey. And he came back down, years and years later. He was about to be reconciled with his brother Esau and he was worried about, he didn't know how the meeting was going to go. So, all night long he was up doing like most of us, do you know you pacing, pacing back and forth. And he meets this, well, he said he meets a man. It was an entity of some kind, apparently, according to the story, and he wrestled with him all night. And as the dawn broke in the morning, as sun was coming up, he found himself realizing that he was wrestling with God. And so, he said the words I will not let you go until you bless me. And that was the verse that was on my mind. When I came out here to the woods. I said, Okay, God, here we go. 24/7, just, just you and me. I want to experience the holy I want to experience like, oh, that people in Stonehenge had that was so powerful that they would move mega ton boulders halfway across England, you know that. That was the kind of experience I wanted, something real. And lo and behold, after being a Christian minister for 40 years, my prayer was answered, but not at all within the structure of Christianity. I discovered it was my prayer was answered much more in terms of, well, what might be considered today, perhaps pagan. We had the experience we were looking for, but that whole idea of I will not let you go until you bless me was in my mind. There, there is a sequel to this story, if we have time I got to tell you.
Everything Imaginable
We got a lot of time.
Jim Willis
Okay. A couple of years ago, I was asked to go to Cornwall over in the UK and give a talk about to a group over there, give a talk about the roots of world religions. And so, I went over, had a wonderful time did some dowsing around some of the standing stones out there in the UK and spent a couple of days with the person who was the head of the British Dowsers Association, and learned a lot we did, did a lot of dowsing and everything else. And after it was all over and I'd given my talk. Before I could come home from England, I had to go up to the little town of Fenny Compton, which is up north west of London, because my ancestors used to preach there. And I'm talking like 2, 300 years ago. And they were clergy in the in the in the Church of England. And I wanted to see the church, the church was where they preach is still standing still being used. And so, I went up there met the town historian and she let me in, and I was able to see the little plaque on the wall that said, Reverend Willis, you know, served here, at such and such a time. And I stood up in the pulpit where my ancestor used to stand 2 or 300 years ago. And as I looked around from his view in the pulpit, I had a perfect view of a stained-glass window that was still there when he was there. It was had been installed already when he was there. And this stained-glass window was really only clearly seen from the pulpit. But lo and behold, it was a stained-glass window depicting the image of Jacob wrestling with God saying, I will not let you go until you bless me. Somehow, this guy's spiritual genes were passed down from generation to generation and I must have inherited them, because I was staring at a stained-glass window that my ancestors saw. That was the very same verse that I had in my mind when I came up here to the woods. I will not let you go until you bless me.
Everything Imaginable
Do you think that can be like the result? I don't know how you feel about past life experience. But do you think that maybe it could have something like that? Maybe you're him?
Jim Willis
You know, I've told this story before. That's the first time I ever thought about it. I often thought about it just in terms of serendipity or coincidence. It never occurred to me that it might be a, had been a past life experience. Wow. That's a, thank you. I Appreciate that. Gary, I never thought, I'll have to look into this. I really will.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, I don't know how you feel about past life experience.
Jim Willis
Oh, yeah. No, I'm
Everything Imaginable
I'm sort of a believer in it. You know?
Jim Willis
Yeah. Yeah, me too. Me too. I really am. I Matter of fact, I'm such a believer that in my own out of body experiences that I've had since I've been here, I've received the clear and certain knowledge that this is my last, my last go around in the material world. And when I leave this body, I'll be moving on to a different, a different frame a different plane, a different reason for existence. I’m really excited about it. But I just can't believe that as many years I thought about this, it never occurred to me that that paths ancestor of mine could have been me. Wow. You just made my whole day. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, you're moving on to another plane, man. I'm gonna miss you in the next life.
Jim Willis
Oh, well, I'll be around. I'm sure. I'm sure.
Everything Imaginable
You know, it's kind of interesting, I think too, it’s overlooked, you know, is this just my opinion, actually, but back in the old Jewish tradition of Kabbalah, which is, you know, part of the Bible. I think it's part of the tradition. They believed in reincarnation, past lives.
Jim Willis
Yeah, and you find it in, in a lot of different traditions. And I'm, it to me, it makes it makes perfect sense. I have a kind of a, well, it's a theory, I'll never be able to prove it. But of course, when you spend a lot of time alone in the woods, you find yourself asking the big questions. Who am I? And what is my purpose for living? Why am I here? We all ask those questions.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah.
Jim Willis
And I developed a theory that when I mentioned earlier that I feel more comfortable with the word source than I do with God, sometimes, I developed at theory that the source is where we all come from, it's a place of, of perfect unity, it's a place of perfect oneness. But there's something that is missing from the source, you would think that it would be everything possible that there in the source, but there is something that's missing, in a place of perfect unity, and that is individuality. You can't experience individuality within a field of oneness, or we call it a place of oneness. And so, I think every single one of us has made a, what I think is a very courageous decision, to, to leave the source and enter into what I call in my book, the quantum Akashic field, which is a field, Ervin Laszlo gave it that name, it's a field of all possibilities, all probabilities. And from there, we make a journey, once we discover the possibilities of individuality, we make a journey, we are there, energy so to speak, you might, for lack of a better term. We make a journey, the energy that is now individual makes a journey through the newly discovered Higgs field and takes on mass. And we come here and take on mass, we are born into this life. And the reason we are here is to experience the individuality. Now, that's a good thing. But it's also of course a bad thing. Because we the, in here in this place where we live, this perception around where we live. If we're going to experience individuality, we have to experience duality. And that means that there's good, but that means that there's also bad. We have to experience it all. And then when this lifetime is over, and I just have no personal doubt about this at all, when this lifetime is over the essential essence of who we are, returns to that source, and there in the source, we share, so to speak, or download the individual experiences that we have. And here is where it ties in, I think with past life, because I think we keep doing it again and again and again, until we have experienced literally everything we are supposed to experience. And in that sense, the source is informed by our individuality. Now, if you want to go back to using the word God instead of the source again, to put it bluntly, here is God experiencing individuality and God itself, or himself or herself evolving. Because of our experience. In my tradition of Christianity, we say you know, God created all that is, but in that sense, we are in the process of creating God, when you want to look at it that way. We're in the process of evolving and I think life after life after life, we refer to them now as past lives. And I don't know whether it all happens at once. Whether we have the experience of living in different times or whether we actually do live in different times, because I don't I don't know exactly what the nature of time really is. But whatever It is, we are doing something that is tremendously courageous. And that is taking on this experience life after life. And then going back to the source and evolving the source. I think it's a tremendous reason to get up in the morning when I when I remember it right and think about it in that sense, what a, what a wonderful purpose for human life.
Everything Imaginable
Yes, yeah. It's kind of funny. I'm reading this book called Samadhi. And the theory behind his book is that the entire universe is just one particle. It because that one particle exists, it has to take on every imaginable conceivable form that it can. And through that process, it learns about itself. Everything eventually returns back with that knowledge. And after, I don't know, I have no idea. Because it's such a mind-blowing idea.
Jim Willis
Oh, absolutely. And we don't, we don't feel it all the time. Because if we knew what was going on, intellectually, we would be, it would kind of ruin the whole point of the whole thing. The point of experience is to experience something that hasn't happened before. And if we know exactly what's going to happen, and if we understand the whole thing, while we're going through it, it won't work. So, we have to, in a sense, go beyond our feelings, we feel individual, we feel as though we're cut off, we feel as though we're separate, we feel happy, and we feel sad. And we feel all those things. And we say, oh, I wish I could rise above it, and just know that it's all happening for a purpose. But if we actually felt all the time, or knew all the time that it was happening for a purpose, it would defeat the purpose of having an experience in the first place. So, I find it, I find a great comfort in it. I really do
Everything Imaginable
I do too, one I find comfort that you know, even if I don't get it this time, maybe I'll get it next time. Yeah, it says everything is just part of one hole. It just doesn't matter. I don't, I feel like with that kind of knowledge, I don't have to go through life, and take it so seriously, that, you know, I can win, I lose everything and none of it in the end will actually make a difference, you know, because it's the experience and not success or achievement.
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's really, I think, extremely important. Here's, here's where the Buddha was so far ahead of the rest of us. Most of our religions teach us to identify with the good, and then to reject the bad. And we have this picture of an Angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other shoulder and all that kind of thing. The Buddha didn't see it that way. The Buddha saw that good and bad. And everything that happens in this life are the poles of a duality. And his whole insight was defined what he called the middle way, between those two poles of duality, to the place that embraces them both. He was so far ahead of his time when he started talking like that. But it does lead us to a great insight in our time, because this kind of Akashic field that we're talking about the field of all possibilities and all probabilities. And even in quantum physics, right now, they will say, the field where nothing happens unless there is an observer, that that very field has been discovered within the last 7080 years by quantum physicists. And yet, that's the field that they have discovered through their mathematics that the ancient mystics and the ancient gurus have been traveling to, in, in out of body travel. They have been traveling there for 1000s of years. So, we live in a generation, where our scientists has, have caught up with our mystics. And the two parallel roads of science and metaphysics or mysticism, or the supernatural, the two parallel roads that have been going right in the same direction, toward the same end have now merged onto one highway. And that, to me, says that we are living in an exciting time, anything is possible. If these two roads can come together like that. So I'm, I'm very enthusiastic, when I allow myself to be. I’m very enthusiastic about the times that we're living in and I find that very practical, so when people say, oh, there's all this pie in the sky stuff you're dealing with. What about the reality of what we're going through? Well, the reality of what we're going through between pandemics and between economic collapse, and between the political collapse and all of that stuff that has us all, going to the television to hear the bad news every night, all of that stuff, is, there is an antidote for it. And the antidote, I think, is in exactly what we're talking about. If people say, how do I feel better in this terrible world? Understand what happens is happening for a reason, and understand what that reason is. And that makes all this stuff? I think, very practical.
Everything Imaginable
I do too. I interviewed somebody a couple weeks ago, his name was Dr. Richard Alan Miller. And he's fired like, I love his description. He goes, man, you don't have to worry about life. It’s just a creepy dream.
I couldn’t agree more.
Jim Willis
Exactly. We we've all had that thing of waking up for from a dream and it stays with us because it seems so real, you know. And we have to get up and shake our heads and walk around and turn on the light realize that, wow, that, I you know, wherever I was this, this is the reality. I think that's exactly the the feeling we're gonna have when this life is over. And when we wake up, and on the other side, it's going to be like waking up from a bad dream. And even our language betrays it, you know, the old, old song, well, row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, life is but a dream. And it's, there’s even from my own, again, from my own background in Christianity, where I had to listen so often, like so many Christians do about, is there a hell? You know, does hell really exist? And my, my, my answer is always the same. I ask people, well, what is hell? And eventually they get down to say, hell is separation from God. And then I will say to them in this life, are you separated from God? And they say, well, I feel like I'm separated from God. And I say, well, there it is, you're in hell right now. It’s real. And we're living it because Hell is separation from the source. And so that also is, we don't have to worry about dying and coming out on the other side, because we've already been here. And when we return, we wake up from that dream, and I think our first thought is going to be I knew it all along.
Everything Imaginable Wellthat is, for me that, I definitely find that really comforting. Yeah. It takes away a lot of fear that people are so wrapped up in.
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, fear. Fear is, is and, and we return to the end of the Buddha and his, his famous four noble truths. And, you know, the first one is that all life is suffering. And by that he didn't mean that we have to suffer all the time and everything else. He just said that even in the best of times, there is the knowledge that these times won’t last forever. So that's suffering. And then he went on to the second noble truth that, that suffering is caused by desire, and even the desire that we want to, where if we want to live because we're so afraid of death, and that fear that gets around so we desire to be released from fear. And his third great noble truth is you can end that suffering by ending the fear or ending the desiring, stop wanting only the good, just start accepting who you are. And he even and then in his fourth noble truth, of course, he gave the Eightfold Path to follow. Yes, that tells us how to live. But Wow, what a beautiful thing that fear is, and it's there again too. That, that's in the big religions to the Apostle Paul tells us in the New Testament, he said that fear is the greatest enemy and that fear of death. And he said that last enemy to be destroyed is death. And if we don't fear that, then there's no problem. You know, as a, as a minister for that many years, I was at the bedside of literally hundreds of, of people who, who died and came back afterwards and I was able to interview them or read about them, they had near death experiences. You know, I had yet to talk to one person who wanted to come back. They all get to the other side, and all they talk about is beauty, and light, and understanding and compassion and love. And I have yet to find one person who wanted to come back. They knew they needed to. And they understood the there was a, there was a purpose for it. But they didn't want to come back. My own mentor who I had never met, I've met his wife, but I never met him. And that was Hamish Miller, who was the granddaddy of all British dowsers, who was mentor to so many of us who dowse. I've talked to, had tea one time with his wife, Ba Miller, wonderful, wonderful woman who lives in Cornwall. And I was talking to her and she was telling me about how after he had his, well now famous for those who follow Him, had his near-death experience, how he died and came back. And he said, and once you know, once you know where you're going, once you see where you're going. He said, there's no more fear anymore. Because what can they do to you? anything that happens to you, is just going to make that closer, reality closer. And, boy, that's a wonderful way to live, isn't it?
Everything Imaginable
It is, you know, I had an experience about a year ago where I had an epileptic seizure. You know, that's a long time, it was about 20 minutes. But I remember during that seizure, when I lost consciousness, I was like, in a vortex of color and sound. Now I was, just sort of like being there. Yeah, this is kind of cool. Like, you know, because I'm not in my own consciousness anymore.. My brain, my brain is shut off. You know? It didn't also not hear someone yelling in the background. Come back to me come back to me it was my wife yelling at me. Yes. She was yelling at me. And like, it seemed like a second. But I was out for like, 20 minutes.
Jim Willis
Yeah, you know, I'm so glad you brought that up. Because I, I never had epileptic seizures at all in my life, until I started having out of body experiences. And the epilepsy, and the out of body experiences were hand in hand. And I was faced with the idea of what do I do about epilepsy. And I began to study it myself. And I discovered that ever since the time of Aristotle, epilepsy has been called a spiritual disease, because so many people who had epileptic seizures, saw other entities and heard voices and had visions like you did, and like I have when I've had some epileptic seizures. And I discovered that when people do brain imagery, MRI scans, the very same portion of the brain that lights up during an epileptic seizure, that very same portion also lights up when a person is having an out of body experience. So I had to make a big decision. DidI want to take medication, and close the door of my brain to the bad guy of epilepsy, because if I do that, I might be closing the door to the good guy of out of body experiences. And it was a big decision. And I decided I would just rather put up with the epilepsy. So, it went on for oh, period of probably eight or nine years. And now I have to say, now that I'm more fluid and frequent with my out of body experiences, my epilepsy is all that disappeared. I haven't had a seizure in years now. And I'm sure they're connected. So, I don't doubt for one bit that your epileptic seizure was, really occurred at the same time you were having an out of body experience, and you saw a vision of the real reality.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, I swear I did. And another funny thing about that story is about a week later, I received a book in the mail from Oxford University called Time Paradoxes. It's not like a book you could buy on Amazon. And the date on a receipt was six months in the future.
Jim Willis
Wow.
Everything Imaginable
So wierd, I don't know if the two events that were connected but
Jim Willis
Wow, wow. Oh, isn't, isn't life fun when we open our eyes and really look at what's going on?
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, in a certain way, way more going on to what weperceive.
Jim Willis
We have a strange opinion. I think of reality. When you come right down to it. We live inside a, what I like to call a five, five-fold fence. Really in this life. We are surrounded by this fence that has five sides to it and it's we, we don't call them a fence. We call them our, our, our senses of touch and taste and hearing smell and sight, and they surround us. And then over the top of it is the whole thing is a roof that we call the intellect. And anything that comes to us comes through one of those gates one of those, those senses of touch, taste, hearing, sight and smell. But when we get right down to it, we look at this, we call it this is what we perceive. And so we call this perception reality, we call it reality. Well, that is not the case at all, I don't think. The reality is an inside the fence, the reality is on the other side of the fence. And I think that's what out of body experience is, it's finding ways to get outside the fence and experience the reality that's out there. Our brains filter everything through those five senses. When you had your epileptic seizure for that moment, there was that part, that that, that short period of time, there was that time when your brain was firing in a way that it doesn't normally here within this perception realm. And with that, opening up, it opened you up to the reality outside the perception fence, it was really a wonderful thing. When, when you come right down to it, I mean, you look back.
Everything Imaginable
It was, it was cool. It's kind of funny and my wife’s like, no, that was not cool. She thought I was having a heart attack. Oh no! She thinks, she thinks I'm a little crazy.
Jim Willis
No, well, you know, anybody who's never, never realized it, they probably will think you're crazy. Because you know, they've never experienced it. We only tend to believe in things that we experience. That's all. And most people haven't experienced something like that. And so yeah, they think you're crazy. And they say, well, how do you convince someone like that? And I finally decided, after years of this whole thing, that you just can't. Anybody who does not believe it, your words are not going to be sufficient to, to change their minds. And anybody who does believe it, your words are not going to be adequate to describe the experience. Because the words you use, a language itself was invented to describe things within this perception realm, within the fivefold fence. That's what words do they describe experiences, so we can share them with each other. So how do you experience something when it's takes place outside the fence? There's no language out there that can describe those kinds of realities. That's why when you come back from an out of body experience, you really can't say, this is the way it is. All you can say is, this is the way it seemed to me.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah.
Jim Willis
And it becomes inadequate. I found it so difficult when I was writing The Quantum Akashic Field. The subtitle is, A Guide to Out-of-Body Experiences for the Astral Traveler. And I would take some of my out of body experiences and try to put them into words, I keep a journal just for that purpose. And I discovered you just can't do it; the words are so inadequate. But that opens up a whole new reality too, because when you go back into the scriptures of the great religions, when you go back into the Bible, or the Bhagavad Gita, when you go into the Koran, and you begin to read it with that kind of insight, you begin to describe, you begin to understand some people like Ezekiel, for instance, who was trying to describe what certainly sounds fantastic to us. I mean, this great vehicle driven by a man who had four faces and, and wings, and all this kind of thing, with the head of a lion and an eagle and a man and, and then you talk about Isaiah in the Old Testament, who had a vision of being taken up to the third heaven, and seeing things and hearing things, and being sent back with a message. Or you read about even the Apostle Paul in the New Testament is Second Corinthians 11. He said, he had an out of body experience. He said, I was taken to heaven. And I was seeing, see theI saw things there, of which I cannot even speak, he said he couldn't find the words for it. So I think, in a lot of cases that the religions that people are raised in, were originally when the founders were there, they were originally trying to describe exactly the things that you and I are talking about right now. But then of course, later came the followers and they would take these insights and these visions and these out of body experiences, and this deep perception of reality and they built dogma and doctrines and rules and regulations and all the rest. Oh, It's a shame. But if you go back and look at it at the beginning, the experience of those who have at the beginning, I think you'll find that it's very similar to what we're talking about right now.
Everything Imaginable
That's why I always liked the, I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Heart Sutra?
Jim Willis
Yes.
Everything Imaginable
Where there’s like no eyes, no nose, no sound, no touch. You know, if that's the hook, you know, then trying to explain basically what we're talking about is the lack of all this. You can't say what it is. But you can kind of describe what is it isn’t Yeah.
Jim Willis
Yeah, and when you're there, it seems more real than this reality, doesn't it?. That's it. That's the reality right there.
Everything Imaginable
It's amazing. So one of the things I know about you, too, that we have in common is we're both musicians. And I know with me, it's actually, you know, some of my, some people call it flow, which is a term that I really kind of dislike, but I know and I sometimes, I would early on, oddly enough now, too, when I play music, and I just get the repetitious groove. You know, it's like, boom, an hour’s gone by and just like I wasn't even there.
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's, I'm absolutely committed to music has been a part of my life for 75 years now. And I'm absolutely convinced that one of the things that drew me to it, was that I sensed in music itself this, the vibration that I was talking about earlier, that comes from the source. And I think the old timers recognized it when thry talked about the music of the spheres, the music of coming from the stars from the heavens itself, and you find it in the Psalms, they had the, the mountains, clap their hands with joy and the trees sing, the whole vibration of music, but it. I think. Well, you know, and, and when you're talking about the repetition, you know, remember the old rock song coming out of the wet 60s or 70s. Give me the beat boys, free my soul, I want to get lost in your rock and roll and drift away. Shamans, shamans have been using drumming for 1000s of years to instill that and to open up that very part of the brain that was opened up I think when you had your epileptic seizure, and it can be, it can be wonderful when you just find yourself channeling something that's above you, I my, my first love has always been jazz. And there was a there was a night I played for, for years with a really
great quintet. And there was a night when we were all just, you know,
I mean, we always like playing with these guys. But this particular, this particular night, everything was just there, we, we knew what was happening. We weren't thinking we were just doing you know, and we got it all set. And it was we're given ideas back and forth, and rhythms and everything. It just clicked the whole thing. And we finished that set. I looked at the tenor sax guy standing next to me and I said, man, nothing like it. And he just shook his head. And he said, yeah, man, better, better than sex. What he didn't know was his microphone was still live and his wife was sitting in the front row. So I don't know, I don't know if he had an answer for himself that night or not. But it was that it was that kind of thing when it just, you know, where you're just you're not thinking, you're not, you know. Not, not that anybody can just stand up and do it. Because we all paid our dues. We all spent the time in a practice room, practicing the scales and learning until it just became a part of us. But after it became a part of us, we didn't have to think about it anymore. And I think that's the, that's the reality if, boy, if we could live our lives that way, just being in that moment. And being constantly in that feeling of creativity and of connectedness. What a way to live, huh?
Everything Imaginable
It's a great way. It's incredible. You know, like, like definitely like music, music and I think sound vibration, you know. There's a key there I think to some of the mysteries of life. I was even reading, I think like a black hole vibrates at the key of like B minor. It’s actually like one of the best keys I think, that's a bit of a skip to guitar, but it's like one of the coolest sounding keys that, what is.
Jim Willis
It's funny that you should say that because I've, I've heard I've heard people say that the the, the whole universe you know resonates and that, that, that's not necessarily the key of B minor, but low B comes in over and over and over again, I have no doubt that there's something going on there. When you stop to think about it, though, I talked about coming out of the source and I used the word energy, we there. we, the energy comes up. Well, what is energy, but vibration, and what is vibration, but, we experience vibration. When we hear different vibrations, we identify those are different pitches. I had an out of body experience one time, where I was finding myself going, it was very early in my, in my career of out-of-body experiences, I found myself going through this, this tunnel, and I, I sensed all these vibrations all around me in the tunnel. And I remember hearing it as music. Me too. And I didn't I didn't. I don't remember saying anything. But my wife was in the next room. And she heard me say, it's music. It's music, she heard me actually say those words. And, and I think probably, that's one of the things that, that, that music is. And again, the old timers recognized it. Johann Sebastian Bach once said, no music shouldn't be written that not written to the glory of God. And I really believe that he could have just said no music should not be written that’s not written to the glory of source, because music is what it's all about. Music is vibration. And when the, when the music stops, the vibration has stopped. And we are living within the music of the spheres I. I don't think we can get enough of it. I really don't. When I meditate, I listen to music. I happened to listen to Hemi sync music, which was a technology that was invented by Robert Monroe at The Monroe Institute, founder of The Monroe Institute. I studied there for a week with William Buhlman, who I think is one of the great, great teachers in the world today, when it comes to out of body experience. And there, we used to use Hemi sync music, which is a complicated thing to try to describe. But basically, what it does is put the two hemispheres of your brain left and right in sync, so to speak, so that they're with for lack of a better term, it's over overly simplistic, but so they are vibrating together. And I put on the earphones, and I listen to this music, and I meditate and I just find it, able to sometimes, just not all the time, I wish I could but most of the time, or some of the time I just drift away and get our minds away from all that noise and busyness that this world throws at us. It's a, it's a tough world for that. Yeah.
Everything Imaginable
You know, I've only gone on like three days silent retreats for Buddhist meditation. And when I go like people like how, you know, how can you not talk? I'm like one, it's nice not to talk. But it's also like for me, in the silence for some reason, the first thing I hear inside my head is music.. There's always just music inside, in there, you know?
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah. Well, and it's interesting that you said, you know, these three-day retreats because that that was the key to the vision quest in ancient Americans, with their young men would go out into the wilderness, and they would spend three days on a solitary retreat, three days, just living there and staying there sitting in one place. And at the end of three days, usually, their Totem animal would come to them. That happened to me. My, my Totem animal came after three days of partial retreat. And I think that's what we're missing in this life today. We need to do more of that, where we're so busy. And so, the noise and the stuff that comes out is so much. People say I'll just go for a walk. Well, a walk is great, but it doesn't do it. It does take, it does take time. And three days seems to be that key that down through 1000s of years of history. Our ancestors understood that that's what we had to do in order to experience reality on the other side.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, I mean, I would definitely like to do, like a month or more if I could, but unfortunately, yeah, right now I don't have that means. But hopefully one day I'll get, you know, try.
Jim Willis
Well, I'll tell you.
Everything Imaginable
Because I think, three days I'm able to scratch the surface.
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah, that's about it. I really recommend retirement. It took me to get to retirement. I wasn't financially ready. But we discovered we were going to make it work. That's all there was to it. Yeah. I often tell people If I had discovered what retirement, how good retirement was, I would have done it 30 years ago, you know,
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, it's great to be able to pursue some of our passions. That's what I love about doing the podcast too, because I learn so much from my guests.
Jim Willis
Well, there's, there's always somebody out there who can teach us, isn't there? It's just a wonderful, wonderful thing. Wonderful thing.
Everything Imaginable
Always. It's good to be able to share it with other people.Yeah.
Jim Willis
Yeah. Yeah, that was the whole idea. The, the shamanic experience, though, which was the basis of out of body experiences 1000s, upon 1000s of years ago, certain gifted people of the tribe, were able to leave the body and go out into that reality. But they didn't just do it for their own trip. You know, they just didn't come back and say, oh, wow, that was cool. And tell people about it. They did it for a purpose. Their objective was to bring back something that would bring back healing, that would bring back balance, that bring back a message. It was it was thought really blasphemous, to do a shamanic journey and come back with nothing except a big, you know, a fun, a fun trip. And so that was the whole purpose was to go, but then it was to come back. Joseph Campbell called it the hero's journey. The hero would go forth and have an experience. But the hero always had to come back into reality again, and he would share the results of that experience. That's precisely what I think as we talked earlier, about what life is, I think, the idea of coming out here, making the trip all of us heroes, and then going back with that experience, and growing the source or evolving the source. I think it's really, really important.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, I do too. Have you ever like, you know, taken LSD or mushrooms or anything like that?
Jim Willis
you know, I never have. ayahuasca. You know, button mushrooms and everything else I never have. And yet it's a very rich shamanic tradition. I have friends who study with shamans down in Peru, who regularly use ayahuasca. Graham Hancock's book, British journalist, a British researcher on the supernatural, I think has a wonderful book talking about his own experiences. And I know that during the 60s, a lot of my friends were just beginning to discover LSD. I missed out on all of that, because I was in a practice and I was learning how to be a trombone player. So I never have and I've never used psychedelics of any kind. I've never, I've never used drumming to any great extent. But I have used like I say, Hemi sync. And so I have no, you know, I have no qualms with those that do I just haven't done it myself.
Everything Imaginable
Right. Yeah. I mean, I don't do that stuff anymore, obviously. When I was a teenager, I did it for fun.
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, it's, it's it's all in our brains, our brains have evolved to deliver reality to us in a certain way. And as a result, we're facing, you know, 1000s 2, 3, 4, 100,000 years of evolutionary work to bring us to the point where we have a place where we are right now. And I think sometimes, our brains have to, well, we have to open up places of them that are still there. It's just that they've atrophied due to disuse, and they can be awakened. Now, I'm saying, don't do it lightly. Since I started having out of body experiences, I have to say that there is one downside. And that's that my dream life is so much more vivid and stays with me so much more. And it can, it can be really tough, it can really hurt your sleep, you know. And I think that the only reason for that is that part of the brain that experiences dreams. And I think that dreams are sometimes they arise from the brain, but I think there are some dreams where we actually are out of body and we leave our bodies in our sleep, or at least we are entangled with the reality outside. But whatever it is, that part of the brain when it wakes up. Ah, boy, it can be tough. When you, when you wake up in the morning and you feel where you have been in your dream is so real, that it's even more real than where you are here and it, it can be disturbing, you have to learn how to deal with it. So, I like to tell people to be very, very, very, very careful, proceed slowly. Which is one of the reasons I haven't used psychedelics at all too, because I'm certain, certain that they can offer, they could offer a shortcut. And probably some people could maybe even benefit from it. But I, I'm just afraid that I would not be spiritually emotionally ready to handle that kind of a shortcut, I'm more of a stick your toe in the water before you jump in kind of guy.
Everything Imaginable
So, what is your preferred method for OBE, out of body experience?
Jim Willis
Well, it's a I use a meditation technique that you have to find a time of day when it's really the most important thing you do. I've had a lot of people say, I'm going to try to fit in meditation, you can't fit it in. If it's not the most important thing you do in the day, then it's not your number one priority, it's as simple as that. So I had to find a time and finding the right time can be tricky. Because if you find a time when you're really tired, at the end of the day, you can try to meditate and then just fall asleep. On the other hand, if you try to find a time when you just wake up, like many people do, then you're thinking about the day and you're thinking about all the things that go and all this kind of stuff. So, the first thing I had to do was come up with a time. I had to make a decision and I had to stick to it. William Gilman used to teach us that anybody can have about, an out of body experience. But it has to, number one be your first priority. And number two, it has to be your priority for 30 days, 30 minutes a day. And he said, if you can find that time and stick to it and have the discipline 30 minutes a day for 30 days, you will probably have an out of body experience. And I've got to say he was right. But if I had stopped it day 28, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation. Surprisingly, the only time that I could find to meditate was, are you ready for this? Three o'clock in the morning. I don't know why it was, but I was always waking up either five minutes after three or five minutes before three.
Everything Imaginable
The witching hour.
Jim Willis
And I found, at that time, my body was rested enough. Where it was it was you know, I could keep fully alert. But it was also I was restful enough that I could do it. So, I made the decision. And I stuck to it. And for 30 straight days, I was up at three o'clock in the morning, I would get up out of bed, I’d go turn on Hemi sync music. And, you know put on the earphones and I would sit in my chair and I would meditate. And you have to develop a system. This particular method that I'm describing now is described in my book, The Quantum Akashic Field, by the way, if anybody's interested, but you have to develop a system. And for me it was getting out of bed going somewhere else sitting in my chair at three o'clock in the morning, putting on the music and trying to meditate and anybody who has tried to meditate will tell you how difficult it is. Your mind just goes into hydrive, hyperdrive. And you're thinking about this and you're thinking about that. And you have to, here's where it becomes really zen like, you have to try very hard to become and how do you become? By not trying. It's that kind of thing. You have to focus, focus, and focus some more. And it's not easy. The first week, you're gonna want to give up I guarantee it. Second week, probably the same thing. By the third week, you'll start to have glimmers of once in a while. You will sense something going on and you don't know what it is. In my case, I was very conscious after, if I could obtain a few moments of one point meditation, I was very conscious of, it seems like my body was filled with water and it had all sloshed to one side. And the first time I actually got out of body and was able to actually see my physical body, reclining in this chair where I meditated. I, my first thought was man, I made it and I snapped right back into the body right away. And then I fell victim to the great trap. The great trap was having done this once I figured well, if I could just repeat what I did before, then it'll happen again, and it just doesn't work that way. You have to stay calm. One of the things that I have that I really recommend to people, I sometimes do this, and I sometimes don't I, I should do it all the time, and I just don't. And that's keep a journal. You know, I'm a writer, the last thing I want to do is write, when I have something like this happen, I don't want to write it down. I write all the time. But if you keep a journal, all of a sudden, you can look back at, my journals now go back to the year 2012, when my first entries were made, and I go back and I read, and I read those experiences. And then I, I would have forgotten them totally just like a forgotten dream. When you wake up, you know, I would have forgotten about them. But keeping a journal, you can see things that that come to the surface. Themes repeat over and over again, when you're, when you're meditating, you've got to concentrate on a what I call stillness of heart, and stillness of mind, and stillness of body. And then when you do that, and all of a sudden, you realize that you have, you are getting out of body that something is happening, then you find yourself coming across things that are guaranteed to really make you sit up and take notice. First time I ever met an entity from another dimension, a spirit guide, I was so shocked that I just saw it and then boom, I was right back in the body again. And it took me a week before I could get back in that same frame of mind, cuz I kept on saying I want to meet, I want to meet the spirit guide. again, I want to meet the spirit guide. But then I began to realize that I'm not just talking about this woowoo stuff. It's real. And it's even there in science on different dimensions, different dimensions of reality, different universes. And they're just as interested in meeting us as we are in meeting them. And you can do it. So, when you say a method, a haphazard as it is, that's about the closest I can come.
Everything Imaginable
And what was the name of the book? Where can my listeners find it?
Jim Willis
I'm sorry, what was that?
Everything Imaginable
Oh, the, the book where you have this method written. What’s the name of it? Where can my listeners pick it up?
Jim Willis
Oh, the, it's called The Quantum Akashic Field: A Guide to Out-of-Body Experiences for the Astral Traveler. First part of the book is all designed to the theory of it. Well, I tried to go into the science of out of body experience, because I really do believe it's not this woowoo mystical stuff. I really believe that the Akashic field and out of body experiences are just part of a science that we have not yet figured out. I think it's real. So, the first part of the book examines that and then the second part of the book, it gets practical. And that's teaching my own methods. And I make sure to make that I emphasize over and over again, this is not the way to have an out of body experience, it was my way. And if that helps anybody, that's great. But it's, it's in The Quantum Akashic Field: A Guide to Out-of-Body Experiences for the Astral Traveler, and you can find it on my website, which is JimWillis.net and you can find all my books there, for that matter. And anybody who wants to contact me through my website, there's a contact page, and I love to talk to people who find me through there and have conversations So feel free.
Everything Imaginable
Awesome. What was I going to say? Itstill had to do with the out of body experience. Oh, I know, it was. How about the cultists that use like, spirits and stuff like that? That practice goes way back too. I don't know if this is so much shamanic. You know. But I mean, what is your opinion on that? You know, like, I know, like, like in the religious world, you know, they'll say, oh, black magic, magic. It's just the devil's work. I disagree with that, you know, I don't think anything is the devil’s work. It's.
Jim Willis
Yeah. I think we have to come back to the whole idea of duality again. Reality is what we bring to it. And what we bring back. I say in my book over and over again, and I've only had one bad out of body experience. Matter of fact, I never had a bad out of body experience at all, until I was reading the book called Supernatural Gods that came out a couple of years ago from Visible Ink. And I made the bold thing that you know, no problem with supernatural experience because I've never had a bad one. And within a day, I'd had a bad out of body experience. I think, I have to emphasize, first of all, I think the primary, the overall undergirding of the entire cosmos is discovered in words like love and compassion, and understanding, and forgiveness and all those things. I think that's the basic of it all. But I also have to say that when we leave the source, and when we come through the Higgs field and develop a material perception realm, we develop the capacity for both good and bad. And I think it's possible for us to take that bad with us to a certain point, I think there is a barrier that the universe will not let us cross. But I think we can do that. And the experience that I had, I'm sure that the only evil that I discovered on the other side was evil that I had brought with me. And perhaps in the long run, that wasn't even evil. Perhaps I had to bring it with me so that I could identify it, and thereby destroy it. I'm not sure. People, people say the same thing. You know, they say, Well, you know, you're talking about everybody being good. And coming from the source. Do you think Adolf Hitler was good? Well, there's no doubt about it, that there are people, many of them some to a great degree, like get off Hitler, and some to a lesser degree, like our next-door neighbor, who don't necessarily have the best interest of other people at heart, and they have they, their lifetime experience does seem to fall over on that side of the evil, the evil side of duality. And so, I think we have to be careful of that. Now, I know that there are cults out there that really look into the cult for the purpose of using what is sometimes called black magic, or evil magic and that kind of thing. And those kinds of things, I had to say we have to be very careful. But on the other hand, I also think we have to say that this stuff is not all of the devil. There are great angelic beings out there who we need to communicate with. And, and so I think we just can't put everything in a lump sum and say, oh, this is of the devil. And this is not, a cult is evil, and all this kind of thing. I don't, I don't think we could do that. Christianity at the beginning was the Jesus call. It was a group of Jewish people who believed that Messiah had come now whether they were right or not, that's going to be for other people to decide. But it was a Jesus cult. And it turned into Christianity, which some people might say is a cult today, I don't know. But at any rate, I think we have to be careful with those words. And I agree with you when you say, let's not just you know, jump in and make a blanket condemnation.
Everything Imaginable
When it comes to good and evil, do you think that there is an entity that is the devil?
Jim Willis
Ah, wow. There certainly is a strong sense of, of evil, because we live in duality, in a world of duality. And certainly a lot of entities have. takenadvantage of that.Whether there is one devil, you know, boy, you can get into some real theological discussions about that. Our whole concept of the devil has changed so much from where it first arises in the written history. And that takes us all the way back to Samaria the, the Gilgamesh legends and, and, and everything else. And it leads us into the, the theories, the different theories of the Anunnaki. And the two, well, Zecharia Sitchin actually believed that they were entities from outer space. We were, who were two, two actually, you know, Enlil and Enki. One was the good being one was the bad being. And we find that in Hopi legends that the hero twins, one good one bad. We find it in many, many different legends about how we find the good and the bad in the past. One is seen as the Jesus figure so to speak, and the other as the devil figure. That whole idea about Jesus going out into the wilderness for 40 days and confronting the devil. Who was he confronting? Was he confronting an actual entity or was he confronting up one part of his own dualistic nature? The part that in the biblical poetry was thrown out of heaven, so to speak. I'm afraid if we start down that line, down that route will be here another couple of days, because that's a huge, huge topic. And I certainly can't. Although I have a lot of opinions, I certainly can't say this is the way it is, you know?
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, I've been watching a show on Netflix called Lucifer. And, and in this show, you know, like, like, there's a different version. You know, he's an angel who originally rebells against his father ended up being sent down to rule hell. But, but, but the premise is, the show is, at the end of the day, he's still an angel. Yeah, you know, in the following part of the show is like, like, he's going through this process now of sort of redeeming himself, you know, and learning that that he was made for that particular purpose. It was just all one learning process for him.
Jim Willis
Yeah. And, and don't we find that within both of us all the time? You know, in one sense, we were kicked out of the source, because we made a courageous decision to enter into a world of individuality. But within that individuality, all of a sudden, we found duality. And there's the good and there's the bad. There's the, the angel, and there's the devil. And this has been the subject of mythologies, as I said earlier, going all the way back to the Samarians and the Gilgamesh legends, the ancient Mesopotamians, we find the same thing in Egypt. We find the same thing in Peru over and over again, these, these stories just keep coming back. So, I think people have been trying to grapple with this whole idea for a long, long time.
Everything Imaginable
Yes. And this is a perfect segway into your other book, Hidden History: Ancient Aliens and the Suppressed Origins of Civilization.
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah.
Everything Imaginable
Can you tell me a little bit about what the premise of that book is, and what prompted you to write it?
Jim Willis
Sure. For many years, I was a college professor and I taught world religions. And I noticed something about teaching that I have noticed in my own life, for a long time. And that's the, how stuff that we're taught in the classroom growing up, it can often change, it can often grow. Things that we’re taught, we discover 10 years later, are just simply not true anymore. And that's not a problem. I think that's great, because I think knowledge has to evolve. I think the problem comes when we are taught certain things and said and taught that this is the way it is, period. And then we're tested on that knowledge. We're given a test and, and our results of the test determine whether we get a good mark or a bad mark. Good students get good marks, bad students get bad marks. And then all of a sudden, we discovered that those things that got us that good mark, 10 years later, that's just simply not true anymore. Take as a classic example, I was taught ever since grade school, that the first Americans were called the Clovis people. And it was a doctrine that was set in stone. And we were told that they, these early people came over from Siberia across the Siberian landbridge. And they came down when the glaciers melted back. And they came down into a virgin continent where no one has ever been maybe 12,000, 16,000 years ago. And they migrated down to a place near Clovis, Mexico. And there we discovered the first evidence of them, and it was the famous Clovis point. So they were called the Clovis people. And we were told these were the first Americans, period. That's all there is to it. We were tested on the dates, How long ago? How do we know this? How do we know that? Well, now the Clovis theory, the Clovis. It's called Clovis only. The Clovis theory is now in shreds. And there's honest archaeologists and anthropologists who are now looking at the history of America, that goes back at least 50,000 years and possibly even now 110,000 years, of people being here on this continent, and we're discovering great, great evidence for this. So, when I first started teaching this, this theory in terms of anthropology and world religions, I would have to talk to my students and I loved the teaching, but I loved the interaction with the students. What I hated was at the end of the semester, I had to give her a grade because the school demanded that I did, which meant I had to give a test. And so people would have to take a test and like everything else growing up, in my own life, I had to do the same thing to other people. That was done to me, you get a good mark, you're a good student, you get a bad mark, you're a bad student. And I just didn't like it. And so when it came time to write Hidden History, I wanted to write about all of these things that we have been taught that are set in stone. How did the universe begin, the Big Bang? How did life begin? Well, it went from life grew from no- life and a bubbly pool of scum somewhere. How did civilization, how did civilization began? Well, that's easy began in Mesopotamia began in Egypt roughly 6,7,8 1000 years ago. It was since then, all those theories are now being questioned. So I wanted to write Hidden History, because I wanted to write the predominant theory of how all these things happen. But then I wanted to expand to look at the other theories that may not have as much academic credential, but they're still being argued by reputable scientists. There is a byproduct of this though, I discovered some just heart-rending stories. For instance, take Hugh Everett. Hugh Everett was one of the great physicists, who ever lived he, he gave us what we now call the multi verse, He was the first to talk about this whole thing. And yet, he was literally blackballed. from physics, he couldn't get a job teaching, he couldn't get a job experimenting. He couldn't get a job writing. He had to take a job with the federal government, and it may be a good thing that he did, because it was his reading. It was his teaching that really led us to the whole idea of Mutual Assured Destruction, which may have saved the world during the Cuban Missile Crisis. But Hugh Everett died a broken man thinking that his ideas were just crazy and being told that there was nothing. And now, virtually every physicist out there when they talk about Hugh Everett, now that it's too late, because he's dead. They speak of them in these reverent tones. And I could talk about so many others. Warren Moorehead, for instance, on the red paint people theory that he had. So many of these people died, thinking that they were wrong, thinking that their ideas were, were discredited. And now all of a sudden, they're accepted. So, it isn't the idea of our knowledge growing that bothers me, that I think is wonderful, knowledge has to evolve. I think the problem is the way we teach it and the way we tell people, this is the way it is, period. And that's it. You can get in all kinds of problems. In in Egypt, when you study the the, the pyramids, you go over there right now, and Egyptologists will tell you exactly when the pyramids were built. They'll tell you exactly how the pyramids were built. They said there are no mysteries, we have all of the answers. Well, when I was in Egypt, going through the pyramids, for the first time, our guide was taking us back down this long tunnel underneath the pyramids, and I noticed there were these electric wires going alongside of the path. And their purpose was to, to light the, to provide power for the lights that were making it possible for us to go underneath the pyramid. So I found myself saying well, I wonder how they worked in here in the pitch dark before there was electricity. So I looked up at the, the roof of this tunnel we were in and I looked for signs of soot or smoke or something. You know, maybe they had torches. There wasn't any. And so, I said to the guy who was so self-centered, so self-assured all day long. I said to him, he was just walking right in front of me. I said, how did they see the work back here before electricity. And he actually turned away from me walked away and mumbled something like, oh, they must have had some kind of a light source. And that's all he said. I couldn't believe it. For two days, he had been telling us all of the answers and everything else. And here is a basic, basic question that he couldn't answer. And if I hadn't pushed him on it, he never would have even brought it up. And I find that that is so often the case in academia. Believe me, I am not trying to put down academics in terms of their research and their work and, and opening up new things. But I do put down academia when it insists it's my way or the highway and this is the way it happened. Because truth is, we just don't know these things. That's what Hidden History, my book is all about.
Everything Imaginable
How far back do you think humans existed? I think that's a big question right now, Mickey FIDE [AS1]and stuff like, you know, almost like 250 thousand years.
Jim Willis
Yeah, I know. If you had asked me that question 10 years ago, I would have said, oh, everybody knows humans evolved 200,000 years ago, before that there was Neanderthal. We didn't even know about Denisovans back then. We certainly didn't know about the, the two new species that down in New Zealand and around that area. We didn't know any of that stuff. But then all of a sudden, out of the blue. Well, here's the evidence. Now human beings are 300,000 years old. Within the last couple of weeks, there's evidence percolating out that I'm just following with all kinds of bated breath,tThat said all maybe now we have to start looking four or 500,000 years ago. So, if you'd asked me that question, 10 years ago, I would have said, Oh, humans evolved 200,000 years ago. Now. When I look at human species, maybe not species just like Homosapien. But I'm thinking we have to not, now start talking not in terms of 1000s of years, but perhaps in terms of millions of years. And on good days, perhaps even billions of years. I think we, consciousness has had a material existence, and sentience as a material existence that can contemplate itself. They may not have looked like Homosapiens, they may not have looked at, but I think we can go way, way back a lot farther than anybody ever expected before.
Everything Imaginable
I agree. What is your slant on Darwinisms? You know, that's another thing to us over the last 10 or 15 years, a lot of holes have been poked in it, with the finding of like these hobbit people, you know that the elongated skulls that have the different cracks at the top? So we know. Well, you know, they’re pretty elongated.
Jim Willis
Well, yeah, even, even 220 years ago, 150 years ago, for that matter. Well, for that matter, right up through the time of the Civil War, we made a, science and religion made a huge mistake. And they put us into an either or position, either Darwinism, or creationism, one or the other. And all I can say is maybe when the whole final theory is figured out, maybe there's room for both. Maybe there is evolution within species, I think we have to admit that there is because the, the little dog that we have running around at our feet doesn't look anything like a wolf. But we know that way back when she was, you know, that kind of thing. So yeah, we evolved. On the other hand, is Darwinism sufficient to explain life and in all of its complexity? I just don't think so. So I don't think it's a matter of again, either, or, I think we have to say we have to have room for both. The Buddha would say accept both and go to that, through the middle ground to that place that embraces them both.
Everything Imaginable
Yes, I agree. If the first species have been around for so long, do you think? Do you believe that it like the idea of aliens, you know, doing genetic modifications to create us?
Jim Willis
I'm not going to close my mind to anything. Frankly, Gary, I'm just really not. When it comes to the whole idea of aliens, and I talked about this in two or three books now. I think we have to get rid of again, that whole question of either and or, either there are aliens from off our planet or there or not. And then we say, well, if there are aliens, and if they have been ancient aliens that are past, either they come from this cosmos, or they come from other dimensions, or both. And I just say once again, yeah, both. I really do think, I know that there's a lot of physics types that are going to be very distraught at the idea of nuts and bolts, flying saucers conquering the laws of physics to traveling the immense distances that we have to travel. And so I know they're gonna have a hard time believing in real solid nuts and bolts. You know, flying saucers. On the other hand. What was the very first thing we did? That as soon as we could break the bonds of Earth? What, What did we do? We set off the Voyager And what was in the Voyager it was Carl Sagan famous Golden Record that says, This is who we are. Here we are. Hi. Now, if we did that, I can't imagine that conscious sentient life couldn't exist on other planets somewhere else in the universe, perhaps billions of years ago, who did the very same thing we did. And also, I have to face the fact that there is just so much circumstantial evidence and people taking pictures, and even now I'm following this in the New York Times, I love it. With the Pentagon releasing this information about alien materials and metals that were not made on this planet. Well, where did they come from? And so, I have to say that these immense distances that we say are physically impossible to travel, I think we have to add one word to that sentence, there are physical distances that we are not able to follow or pass through yet. I think the time will come when we may discover that we are just as capable of doing all things of course, I'm a Trekkie. So, I believe in warp speed, you know, who else but on the other hand, besides the idea of Ancient Aliens, who are of this cosmos, and I think we have to say, Yeah, but we also have to experience this whole idea of other dimensional entities, I know they're there, because in out of body experiences, I've seen them. And so I have to believe that given the kind of evidence that not only I can, I have seen with my own two metaphorical eyes and out of body experience. But with all of the oral history that has come down through us about meeting these other entities, I have to believe that aliens could also come from dimensions that are parallel to us. And if we can learn to do out of body experiences and see them, then obviously, they can do out of body experience and see us.
Everything Imaginable
Exactly. I’ve been saying that, you know, people like what?. You know, maybe we can't, maybe they can't travel here in a complete physical form. But maybe they can astral travel here. Well, you know, in a non-physical form,
Jim Willis
It's the craziest thing of all the people who can hear us talking like this and say, No, it can't be, probably in a good number of them are going out of the Christian tradition, which you're going to say, we just don't believe in entities stepping out of another dimension into our own. Right, that's, that's crazy. And yet, at Christmas time, they will stand up and saying, angels we have seen on high, or Hark, the herald angels sing Glory to the newborn King, and they will tell the story of the angel Gabriel, stepping right out of another dimension and speaking to Mary, or speaking to Daniel in the Old Testament, or speaking to Mohammed in the cave where he was meditating. What is this, except entities coming from another dimension with a message for us? So, right again, it's right there in the great religions of the world that this has happened in the past? Yeah. And, and is happening probably right now.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah. And now we have a little bit of quantum physics to even back some of these up., It gives them a scientific basis.
Jim Willis
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I really think that dimensional travel and entities from another dimension is not just a metaphysical or supernatural idea. I think it's, as I said earlier, science that we haven't yet figured out. I think it was Herbert Clark, perhaps, who said that any technology that is sufficiently advanced is going to appear like magic to us. And I think that's probably what we're facing. We just don't understand it yet. That doesn't mean it's not happening. Because there's too much evidence that it is happening.
Everything Imaginable
Yes, yeah. I mean, I, I guess it was a couple months ago, I interviewed somebody from the Golden Dawn. And, you know, one of the things that fascinates me about the history of the coal[AS2] is, I mean, it started out as writing. Somebody writes down something on a piece of paper, some guy takes it to somebody else and goes what it means. You know, and that was considered like magic. Yeah, yeah.
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah. There have been, there’s just been too many, too many experiences of this. When we talk about when the army was experimenting with this stuff, and when Skip Edward [AS3] actually went to Monroe Institute, where he met Robert Monroe. He was actually doing remote viewing experiments for the army. And they found some of their people who were able to do remote viewing and actually spy on the position of Russian submarines and all this kind of thing. Now, what would have happened if when he spotted these Russian submarines in the, in the process of ethereal travel? Then what would have happened? Had there been someone on the submarine who was equally gifted? And could have seen him?
Everything Imaginable
Yes.
Jim Willis
And here we have two entities meeting each other in a plane that we do not yet understand. I think it's entirely possible. And I think it's practical. I, I don't think we just need to look at this stuff is this all woowoo mystic stuff that's entertaining. I got a call one night, middle of the night, three, four o'clock in the morning from a nurse in a hospital, who told me, a good friend of yours is dying in the hospital. He's not expected to end, to get through the night. And he needs to talk to you. He's been asking for you. Can you come by any chance? And I said, Sure, of course. So, I got up out of bed, got my clothes on, got my car, drove down to the hospital. And sure enough, here was my friend who was in the hospital bed. He was quite a bit older than me. I was probably 15, 20 years younger at the time. He was quite a bit older than me, but he was facing what could be his last night in, on Earth. Now this man had led an exemplary life, he had a doctorate or two, he had started a university as a founder of a university. He was a pillar of the community. He was a pillar of our church and Deacon of our church, greatest guy in the world, amassed a small fortune along the way that he used to help other people. Just, you couldn't imagine a better life. And as I stood holding his hand, I was close enough to him where I realized that he didn't, you know, I didn't have to beat around the bush with him. And so, I just said to him, are you ready to go? He started to cry. And he said, Jim, I've done a lot of stuff in my life, the one thing I didn't do, was prepare for this moment. He wasn't ready to die. Now we were lucky, he made it through that night, he made it through 10 more, and I spent part of the next 10 days, each part of, part of everyday over the next 10 days with him. All I can think of is, how many people do I know in this life who are not ready to die, who are not ready to face these big questions? They put them off. Because they seem, oh, it's too difficult to talk about these things. Oh, it's too difficult to think about these things. All these things are beyond me. What kind of practical sense would it take if we, every single one of us could begin to realize what's really important, and to concentrate on that stuff, rather than the stuff that fills our days? So, I think what we've been talking about for the last what, hour and a half now, I think is of immense practical importance, not just spiritual, religious, or even metaphysical importance, and certainly not just entertainment. It may be the answer of studying this kind of stuff, could be the path that's going to take us to the promised land, away from all of this stuff that we've created, that's destroying the world around us and destroying our countries and destroying our physical lives and everything else. To me, it's immensely practical. And I'm really glad to have the opportunity to talk about these things with someone such as yourself.
Everything Imaginable
Thank you. I'm glad to have you because I feel if people could let go of the fear.
Jim Willis
Yeah. Yeah.
Everything Imaginable
Anything would be possible for the for the human species, if we just let go of that one thing. And it is mostly the fear of death.
Jim Willis
Yeah. Yeah.
Everything Imaginable
And death is just something not to be feared. I don't mean to be morbid, but, you know, like, like, first time I, my mom passed away, I guess, about five years ago. And I didn't know what to expect. And I was afraid, you know, and when she was dying, and I just sat with her and I was holding her hand. She just stopped breathing. And honestly, it was like this super calm, it was just, it wasn't traumatizing. You know what I mean? It was the complete opposite. There was so much peace. You know?
Jim Willis
Yeah. I think that's, I think that's what we all have to look forward to. And it's a shame, that we can't carry that piece with us through all of the human manufactured traumas and dramas that we create around ourselves. It's a, It's a shame. It really is. On the other hand, I can say, you know, you talked about not wanting to be morbid, I'm, I don't say this with any more, you know, morbid feelings at all myself, but I kind of look forward to it, I really do. I've been to the other side, I've seen it, I know what it's there, what, what it's like, and I'm, I'm looking forward to it, I really am. There comes a time, when we realize we've done what we need to get done. And we just want to go home. And I've done a lot of long-distance biking, gone cross country a couple of times and on a bicycle, and up and down north and south and east and west, both. I've done a lot of hiking on the Appalachian Trail. I can always say that, a day or two before I know the trip is going to wind up, I always just want to say, boy, I wish it was over, you know, I know I have another day or two to go. It's been great. I wouldn't have wanted to miss it. But I'm ready. You know, that kind of thing. And that's kind of the way I'm feeling about life right now. I'm, you know, 70, at 75 years old, you look back at what you've done, and you realize you can still have a couple of good years left, and that's fine. But when you know what's out there, and you know, the trip, you know, the journey is there. And it's been worth it. There's a part of you that just says, wow, I want to go home. It's time, you know,
Everything Imaginable
But you definitely, you know, you're carrying a very important message to people. You know, I mean, anybody who reads your books or hears this podcast, you know, it could change their lives, you know. It could take away that fear. And I think you take away one person's fear. And people see that change in one person. Hopefully that can be just as contagious as like the COVID virus, you know what I mean?
Jim Willis
Yeah, thank you, Gary. I really do appreciate that. It's the good thing about living out in the woods is that we don't see anybody for days on end, sometimes. The bad thing about living out in the woods is that we don't see anybody for days on end, sometimes. You can feel, you can start to feel sometimes that your life just hasn't been worthwhile, you know, and you just haven't accomplished anything. And then when you hear something like that, it's a reminder that you know, you never know. You just have to, you have to take it one day at a time and just use the days do what, what's there and look forward to it. But, thank you. This has been, this has been great. I really do appreciate this, Gary.
Everything Imaginable
I do too. I really loved this conversation.
Jim Willis
Thank you. Thank you. It's been great for me too hope we can do it again sometime.
Everything Imaginable
Absolutely. And one more time, just tell my listeners where they can find you.
Jim Willis
Sure. The website, probably a good place to start aany It's www.JimWillis.net
I also have a Facebook page at JimWillis.sauthor. And then there's a YouTube channel that has a lot of different things that we've done. Right now my, my, my daughter handles all the, the tech part of this and my scheduling and everything else. And she and I are working on a series of videos right now, on dowsing for the beginner, dowsing for earth energy. And some of those are going to be appearing on the YouTube video along with some of the other talks that I've done in the past at various places. And once again, if you find me on the website, go to the contact page. Drop me a line. I'd love to hear from you.
Everything Imaginable
Yes, definitely. And I'll definitely also, in the notes of this podcast, I will post the links.
Jim Willis
Oh wonderful.
Everything Imaginable
For my Listeners, so they can just click on the links if they're accessing you, on the internet.
Jim Willis
Sure, Jen, Jen can set you up with all of those and she's the one that that keeps me on the straight and narrow because to me a computer is just a big typewriter. I really have to thank you for keeping me in into all the rest of that stuff.
Everything Imaginable
Well, we got you on zoom.
Jim Willis
Well, there you go. So just, just for the fun of it. We mentioned hidden histories. If any of your listeners are interested, next September, we're leading a trek a tour to Turkey and Gobekli Tepe. We're going to visit where civilization began. And we're going to meet at Istanbul. I'm doing this in conjunction with Dr. Micki [AS4]Pistorius who is with Ancient Origins. She's my editor there, and she and I will be leading this trip. And if anybody is interested in Gobekli, Tepe, or Istanbul, or the birthplace of Abraham, or any of those old places, they're all there. It's advertised on the website. And I invite you to go to the Ancient Origin’s website, and check out the tour, going to be a fascinating tour over there. We're going to do a little dowsing, and talking in depth about a lot of the things that you and I talked about today. So, I hope some of your listeners can join us.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, that's like a dream come true, kind of trip there.
Jim Willis
Well, hope, hope we can hope we can have a good have, a good group. We're looking forward to it. We really, we were scheduled to go in just a couple of weeks, this September. But obviously the way things are in the world right now, it just didn't work out. So we had to put it off for a year. So, it'll be next September, plenty of time to plan.
Everything Imaginable
That is awesome. All right. Well, thank you for being on my show.
Jim Willis
Thank you.
Everything Imaginable
As I said, I totally loved talking to you.
Jim Willis
Thank you. Appreciate it. We'll let we'll talk again., I hope.
Everything Imaginable
Absolutely.
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Episode 37 Jim Willis
Thu, 2/4 6:22PM • 1:37:30
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, life, experience, talking, book, discovered, years, body, epileptic seizure, find, imaginable, reality, happening, entities, days, music, thinking, source, duality, world
SPEAKERS
Everything Imaginable
Everything Imaginable
Welcome to Everything Imaginable, a podcast for curious minds. KGRA radio. Welcome, everyone to another episode of Everything Imaginable. I'm your host, Gary Cocciolillo. And today we have a very special guest, Jim Willis. He is the author of Hidden History, Ancient Aliens and the Suppressed Origins of Civilization. And also The Quantum Akashic Field: A Guides to Out-of-Body Experience for for the Astral Traveler. And I believe he's written 10 other books added to that. Thank you for being on my show.
Jim Willis
Oh, thanks, Gary. Good to be with you. Good to be with you.
Everything Imaginable
So, um, you know, like, actually, you were a Protestant Minister for 40 years. Is that how you started?
Jim Willis
Well, it's hard to say. I was a, I was a Protestant minister. Like, like you say, for 40 years. And when I went into ministry, back in the early 70s, I was under the impression as most of us were, most of us young people going to seminary we, we had this idea that life was going to be this perpetual spiritual quest, you know, we were going to be searching for our Holy Grail. And we'd be surrounded by a community of like-minded individuals. And we went off to seminary expecting this great illuminating spiritual journey. And, of course, it just doesn't work out that way. When you go to your first, you go to your first church, you know, you're a pastor of a church and, and you understand that, like everything else, it's, it's a job, you have to be concerned about the next Sunday. You have to be concerned about the next committee meeting, or the next counseling session or the next deadline. And pretty soon before you know it, man, 40 years has come and gone. And you realize that you've been talking about God, you've been talking about spirit, and you haven't been really experiencing it. You know, other people talk about going to church or having this great, illuminating spiritual awakening at a church. And when you're leading the church service, you don't do that. Because your job is to make sure things get done at the right time and at the right order, and in the right volume, and all that kind of thing, and so you're, you're not really entering into it, you're leading it. And that kind of just sums it up. You know, 40 years later, I realized I had been talking about God all my life. And I hadn't been really having the experience that I was after. So, when it came time to retire, my wife and I decided we had an agenda, we were going to go to the woods. We moved up to South Carolina, bought a little piece of property that was just pure woods. Matter of fact, we had to build the road back to it. And I had to build the house. I was part time Carpenter while I was in ministry as well. So, I built the house and we decided to spend one year, we were going to spend one year living out in the woods, watching the leaves change color, and we were going to, for lack of a better term try to experience God but I didn't want
But by then, you know, I come to the point where I wasn't even really comfortable using the word God anymore, because I know what I mean when I say God, but it's a word that's got so much baggage on it. So, I started thinking about other words like source or getting back to the spirit, you know, and we, we came out here for one year and, and now it's been almost 11, We're still, we're still here, started writing some books. And I came out here with, with a, I even had a scripture verse in my mind. In the Old Testament, there's a wonderful story where Jacob and Esau the two brothers have this falling out and Jacob is forced to flee for his life because he defrauded his brother Esau out of his birthright. And so, he fled for his life. And if the story is historically accurate, he probably went up in the area right now that is Anatolia, somewhere near where Gobekli Tepe was discovered in Turkey. And he came back down, years and years later. He was about to be reconciled with his brother Esau and he was worried about, he didn't know how the meeting was going to go. So, all night long he was up doing like most of us, do you know you pacing, pacing back and forth. And he meets this, well, he said he meets a man. It was an entity of some kind, apparently, according to the story, and he wrestled with him all night. And as the dawn broke in the morning, as sun was coming up, he found himself realizing that he was wrestling with God. And so, he said the words I will not let you go until you bless me. And that was the verse that was on my mind. When I came out here to the woods. I said, Okay, God, here we go. 24/7, just, just you and me. I want to experience the holy I want to experience like, oh, that people in Stonehenge had that was so powerful that they would move mega ton boulders halfway across England, you know that. That was the kind of experience I wanted, something real. And lo and behold, after being a Christian minister for 40 years, my prayer was answered, but not at all within the structure of Christianity. I discovered it was my prayer was answered much more in terms of, well, what might be considered today, perhaps pagan. We had the experience we were looking for, but that whole idea of I will not let you go until you bless me was in my mind. There, there is a sequel to this story, if we have time I got to tell you.
Everything Imaginable
We got a lot of time.
Jim Willis
Okay. A couple of years ago, I was asked to go to Cornwall over in the UK and give a talk about to a group over there, give a talk about the roots of world religions. And so, I went over, had a wonderful time did some dowsing around some of the standing stones out there in the UK and spent a couple of days with the person who was the head of the British Dowsers Association, and learned a lot we did, did a lot of dowsing and everything else. And after it was all over and I'd given my talk. Before I could come home from England, I had to go up to the little town of Fenny Compton, which is up north west of London, because my ancestors used to preach there. And I'm talking like 2, 300 years ago. And they were clergy in the in the in the Church of England. And I wanted to see the church, the church was where they preach is still standing still being used. And so, I went up there met the town historian and she let me in, and I was able to see the little plaque on the wall that said, Reverend Willis, you know, served here, at such and such a time. And I stood up in the pulpit where my ancestor used to stand 2 or 300 years ago. And as I looked around from his view in the pulpit, I had a perfect view of a stained-glass window that was still there when he was there. It was had been installed already when he was there. And this stained-glass window was really only clearly seen from the pulpit. But lo and behold, it was a stained-glass window depicting the image of Jacob wrestling with God saying, I will not let you go until you bless me. Somehow, this guy's spiritual genes were passed down from generation to generation and I must have inherited them, because I was staring at a stained-glass window that my ancestors saw. That was the very same verse that I had in my mind when I came up here to the woods. I will not let you go until you bless me.
Everything Imaginable
Do you think that can be like the result? I don't know how you feel about past life experience. But do you think that maybe it could have something like that? Maybe you're him?
Jim Willis
You know, I've told this story before. That's the first time I ever thought about it. I often thought about it just in terms of serendipity or coincidence. It never occurred to me that it might be a, had been a past life experience. Wow. That's a, thank you. I Appreciate that. Gary, I never thought, I'll have to look into this. I really will.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, I don't know how you feel about past life experience.
Jim Willis
Oh, yeah. No, I'm
Everything Imaginable
I'm sort of a believer in it. You know?
Jim Willis
Yeah. Yeah, me too. Me too. I really am. I Matter of fact, I'm such a believer that in my own out of body experiences that I've had since I've been here, I've received the clear and certain knowledge that this is my last, my last go around in the material world. And when I leave this body, I'll be moving on to a different, a different frame a different plane, a different reason for existence. I’m really excited about it. But I just can't believe that as many years I thought about this, it never occurred to me that that paths ancestor of mine could have been me. Wow. You just made my whole day. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, you're moving on to another plane, man. I'm gonna miss you in the next life.
Jim Willis
Oh, well, I'll be around. I'm sure. I'm sure.
Everything Imaginable
You know, it's kind of interesting, I think too, it’s overlooked, you know, is this just my opinion, actually, but back in the old Jewish tradition of Kabbalah, which is, you know, part of the Bible. I think it's part of the tradition. They believed in reincarnation, past lives.
Jim Willis
Yeah, and you find it in, in a lot of different traditions. And I'm, it to me, it makes it makes perfect sense. I have a kind of a, well, it's a theory, I'll never be able to prove it. But of course, when you spend a lot of time alone in the woods, you find yourself asking the big questions. Who am I? And what is my purpose for living? Why am I here? We all ask those questions.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah.
Jim Willis
And I developed a theory that when I mentioned earlier that I feel more comfortable with the word source than I do with God, sometimes, I developed at theory that the source is where we all come from, it's a place of, of perfect unity, it's a place of perfect oneness. But there's something that is missing from the source, you would think that it would be everything possible that there in the source, but there is something that's missing, in a place of perfect unity, and that is individuality. You can't experience individuality within a field of oneness, or we call it a place of oneness. And so, I think every single one of us has made a, what I think is a very courageous decision, to, to leave the source and enter into what I call in my book, the quantum Akashic field, which is a field, Ervin Laszlo gave it that name, it's a field of all possibilities, all probabilities. And from there, we make a journey, once we discover the possibilities of individuality, we make a journey, we are there, energy so to speak, you might, for lack of a better term. We make a journey, the energy that is now individual makes a journey through the newly discovered Higgs field and takes on mass. And we come here and take on mass, we are born into this life. And the reason we are here is to experience the individuality. Now, that's a good thing. But it's also of course a bad thing. Because we the, in here in this place where we live, this perception around where we live. If we're going to experience individuality, we have to experience duality. And that means that there's good, but that means that there's also bad. We have to experience it all. And then when this lifetime is over, and I just have no personal doubt about this at all, when this lifetime is over the essential essence of who we are, returns to that source, and there in the source, we share, so to speak, or download the individual experiences that we have. And here is where it ties in, I think with past life, because I think we keep doing it again and again and again, until we have experienced literally everything we are supposed to experience. And in that sense, the source is informed by our individuality. Now, if you want to go back to using the word God instead of the source again, to put it bluntly, here is God experiencing individuality and God itself, or himself or herself evolving. Because of our experience. In my tradition of Christianity, we say you know, God created all that is, but in that sense, we are in the process of creating God, when you want to look at it that way. We're in the process of evolving and I think life after life after life, we refer to them now as past lives. And I don't know whether it all happens at once. Whether we have the experience of living in different times or whether we actually do live in different times, because I don't I don't know exactly what the nature of time really is. But whatever It is, we are doing something that is tremendously courageous. And that is taking on this experience life after life. And then going back to the source and evolving the source. I think it's a tremendous reason to get up in the morning when I when I remember it right and think about it in that sense, what a, what a wonderful purpose for human life.
Everything Imaginable
Yes, yeah. It's kind of funny. I'm reading this book called Samadhi. And the theory behind his book is that the entire universe is just one particle. It because that one particle exists, it has to take on every imaginable conceivable form that it can. And through that process, it learns about itself. Everything eventually returns back with that knowledge. And after, I don't know, I have no idea. Because it's such a mind-blowing idea.
Jim Willis
Oh, absolutely. And we don't, we don't feel it all the time. Because if we knew what was going on, intellectually, we would be, it would kind of ruin the whole point of the whole thing. The point of experience is to experience something that hasn't happened before. And if we know exactly what's going to happen, and if we understand the whole thing, while we're going through it, it won't work. So, we have to, in a sense, go beyond our feelings, we feel individual, we feel as though we're cut off, we feel as though we're separate, we feel happy, and we feel sad. And we feel all those things. And we say, oh, I wish I could rise above it, and just know that it's all happening for a purpose. But if we actually felt all the time, or knew all the time that it was happening for a purpose, it would defeat the purpose of having an experience in the first place. So, I find it, I find a great comfort in it. I really do
Everything Imaginable
I do too, one I find comfort that you know, even if I don't get it this time, maybe I'll get it next time. Yeah, it says everything is just part of one hole. It just doesn't matter. I don't, I feel like with that kind of knowledge, I don't have to go through life, and take it so seriously, that, you know, I can win, I lose everything and none of it in the end will actually make a difference, you know, because it's the experience and not success or achievement.
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's really, I think, extremely important. Here's, here's where the Buddha was so far ahead of the rest of us. Most of our religions teach us to identify with the good, and then to reject the bad. And we have this picture of an Angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other shoulder and all that kind of thing. The Buddha didn't see it that way. The Buddha saw that good and bad. And everything that happens in this life are the poles of a duality. And his whole insight was defined what he called the middle way, between those two poles of duality, to the place that embraces them both. He was so far ahead of his time when he started talking like that. But it does lead us to a great insight in our time, because this kind of Akashic field that we're talking about the field of all possibilities and all probabilities. And even in quantum physics, right now, they will say, the field where nothing happens unless there is an observer, that that very field has been discovered within the last 7080 years by quantum physicists. And yet, that's the field that they have discovered through their mathematics that the ancient mystics and the ancient gurus have been traveling to, in, in out of body travel. They have been traveling there for 1000s of years. So, we live in a generation, where our scientists has, have caught up with our mystics. And the two parallel roads of science and metaphysics or mysticism, or the supernatural, the two parallel roads that have been going right in the same direction, toward the same end have now merged onto one highway. And that, to me, says that we are living in an exciting time, anything is possible. If these two roads can come together like that. So I'm, I'm very enthusiastic, when I allow myself to be. I’m very enthusiastic about the times that we're living in and I find that very practical, so when people say, oh, there's all this pie in the sky stuff you're dealing with. What about the reality of what we're going through? Well, the reality of what we're going through between pandemics and between economic collapse, and between the political collapse and all of that stuff that has us all, going to the television to hear the bad news every night, all of that stuff, is, there is an antidote for it. And the antidote, I think, is in exactly what we're talking about. If people say, how do I feel better in this terrible world? Understand what happens is happening for a reason, and understand what that reason is. And that makes all this stuff? I think, very practical.
Everything Imaginable
I do too. I interviewed somebody a couple weeks ago, his name was Dr. Richard Alan Miller. And he's fired like, I love his description. He goes, man, you don't have to worry about life. It’s just a creepy dream.
I couldn’t agree more.
Jim Willis
Exactly. We we've all had that thing of waking up for from a dream and it stays with us because it seems so real, you know. And we have to get up and shake our heads and walk around and turn on the light realize that, wow, that, I you know, wherever I was this, this is the reality. I think that's exactly the the feeling we're gonna have when this life is over. And when we wake up, and on the other side, it's going to be like waking up from a bad dream. And even our language betrays it, you know, the old, old song, well, row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, life is but a dream. And it's, there’s even from my own, again, from my own background in Christianity, where I had to listen so often, like so many Christians do about, is there a hell? You know, does hell really exist? And my, my, my answer is always the same. I ask people, well, what is hell? And eventually they get down to say, hell is separation from God. And then I will say to them in this life, are you separated from God? And they say, well, I feel like I'm separated from God. And I say, well, there it is, you're in hell right now. It’s real. And we're living it because Hell is separation from the source. And so that also is, we don't have to worry about dying and coming out on the other side, because we've already been here. And when we return, we wake up from that dream, and I think our first thought is going to be I knew it all along.
Everything Imaginable Wellthat is, for me that, I definitely find that really comforting. Yeah. It takes away a lot of fear that people are so wrapped up in.
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, fear. Fear is, is and, and we return to the end of the Buddha and his, his famous four noble truths. And, you know, the first one is that all life is suffering. And by that he didn't mean that we have to suffer all the time and everything else. He just said that even in the best of times, there is the knowledge that these times won’t last forever. So that's suffering. And then he went on to the second noble truth that, that suffering is caused by desire, and even the desire that we want to, where if we want to live because we're so afraid of death, and that fear that gets around so we desire to be released from fear. And his third great noble truth is you can end that suffering by ending the fear or ending the desiring, stop wanting only the good, just start accepting who you are. And he even and then in his fourth noble truth, of course, he gave the Eightfold Path to follow. Yes, that tells us how to live. But Wow, what a beautiful thing that fear is, and it's there again too. That, that's in the big religions to the Apostle Paul tells us in the New Testament, he said that fear is the greatest enemy and that fear of death. And he said that last enemy to be destroyed is death. And if we don't fear that, then there's no problem. You know, as a, as a minister for that many years, I was at the bedside of literally hundreds of, of people who, who died and came back afterwards and I was able to interview them or read about them, they had near death experiences. You know, I had yet to talk to one person who wanted to come back. They all get to the other side, and all they talk about is beauty, and light, and understanding and compassion and love. And I have yet to find one person who wanted to come back. They knew they needed to. And they understood the there was a, there was a purpose for it. But they didn't want to come back. My own mentor who I had never met, I've met his wife, but I never met him. And that was Hamish Miller, who was the granddaddy of all British dowsers, who was mentor to so many of us who dowse. I've talked to, had tea one time with his wife, Ba Miller, wonderful, wonderful woman who lives in Cornwall. And I was talking to her and she was telling me about how after he had his, well now famous for those who follow Him, had his near-death experience, how he died and came back. And he said, and once you know, once you know where you're going, once you see where you're going. He said, there's no more fear anymore. Because what can they do to you? anything that happens to you, is just going to make that closer, reality closer. And, boy, that's a wonderful way to live, isn't it?
Everything Imaginable
It is, you know, I had an experience about a year ago where I had an epileptic seizure. You know, that's a long time, it was about 20 minutes. But I remember during that seizure, when I lost consciousness, I was like, in a vortex of color and sound. Now I was, just sort of like being there. Yeah, this is kind of cool. Like, you know, because I'm not in my own consciousness anymore.. My brain, my brain is shut off. You know? It didn't also not hear someone yelling in the background. Come back to me come back to me it was my wife yelling at me. Yes. She was yelling at me. And like, it seemed like a second. But I was out for like, 20 minutes.
Jim Willis
Yeah, you know, I'm so glad you brought that up. Because I, I never had epileptic seizures at all in my life, until I started having out of body experiences. And the epilepsy, and the out of body experiences were hand in hand. And I was faced with the idea of what do I do about epilepsy. And I began to study it myself. And I discovered that ever since the time of Aristotle, epilepsy has been called a spiritual disease, because so many people who had epileptic seizures, saw other entities and heard voices and had visions like you did, and like I have when I've had some epileptic seizures. And I discovered that when people do brain imagery, MRI scans, the very same portion of the brain that lights up during an epileptic seizure, that very same portion also lights up when a person is having an out of body experience. So I had to make a big decision. DidI want to take medication, and close the door of my brain to the bad guy of epilepsy, because if I do that, I might be closing the door to the good guy of out of body experiences. And it was a big decision. And I decided I would just rather put up with the epilepsy. So, it went on for oh, period of probably eight or nine years. And now I have to say, now that I'm more fluid and frequent with my out of body experiences, my epilepsy is all that disappeared. I haven't had a seizure in years now. And I'm sure they're connected. So, I don't doubt for one bit that your epileptic seizure was, really occurred at the same time you were having an out of body experience, and you saw a vision of the real reality.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, I swear I did. And another funny thing about that story is about a week later, I received a book in the mail from Oxford University called Time Paradoxes. It's not like a book you could buy on Amazon. And the date on a receipt was six months in the future.
Jim Willis
Wow.
Everything Imaginable
So wierd, I don't know if the two events that were connected but
Jim Willis
Wow, wow. Oh, isn't, isn't life fun when we open our eyes and really look at what's going on?
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, in a certain way, way more going on to what weperceive.
Jim Willis
We have a strange opinion. I think of reality. When you come right down to it. We live inside a, what I like to call a five, five-fold fence. Really in this life. We are surrounded by this fence that has five sides to it and it's we, we don't call them a fence. We call them our, our, our senses of touch and taste and hearing smell and sight, and they surround us. And then over the top of it is the whole thing is a roof that we call the intellect. And anything that comes to us comes through one of those gates one of those, those senses of touch, taste, hearing, sight and smell. But when we get right down to it, we look at this, we call it this is what we perceive. And so we call this perception reality, we call it reality. Well, that is not the case at all, I don't think. The reality is an inside the fence, the reality is on the other side of the fence. And I think that's what out of body experience is, it's finding ways to get outside the fence and experience the reality that's out there. Our brains filter everything through those five senses. When you had your epileptic seizure for that moment, there was that part, that that, that short period of time, there was that time when your brain was firing in a way that it doesn't normally here within this perception realm. And with that, opening up, it opened you up to the reality outside the perception fence, it was really a wonderful thing. When, when you come right down to it, I mean, you look back.
Everything Imaginable
It was, it was cool. It's kind of funny and my wife’s like, no, that was not cool. She thought I was having a heart attack. Oh no! She thinks, she thinks I'm a little crazy.
Jim Willis
No, well, you know, anybody who's never, never realized it, they probably will think you're crazy. Because you know, they've never experienced it. We only tend to believe in things that we experience. That's all. And most people haven't experienced something like that. And so yeah, they think you're crazy. And they say, well, how do you convince someone like that? And I finally decided, after years of this whole thing, that you just can't. Anybody who does not believe it, your words are not going to be sufficient to, to change their minds. And anybody who does believe it, your words are not going to be adequate to describe the experience. Because the words you use, a language itself was invented to describe things within this perception realm, within the fivefold fence. That's what words do they describe experiences, so we can share them with each other. So how do you experience something when it's takes place outside the fence? There's no language out there that can describe those kinds of realities. That's why when you come back from an out of body experience, you really can't say, this is the way it is. All you can say is, this is the way it seemed to me.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah.
Jim Willis
And it becomes inadequate. I found it so difficult when I was writing The Quantum Akashic Field. The subtitle is, A Guide to Out-of-Body Experiences for the Astral Traveler. And I would take some of my out of body experiences and try to put them into words, I keep a journal just for that purpose. And I discovered you just can't do it; the words are so inadequate. But that opens up a whole new reality too, because when you go back into the scriptures of the great religions, when you go back into the Bible, or the Bhagavad Gita, when you go into the Koran, and you begin to read it with that kind of insight, you begin to describe, you begin to understand some people like Ezekiel, for instance, who was trying to describe what certainly sounds fantastic to us. I mean, this great vehicle driven by a man who had four faces and, and wings, and all this kind of thing, with the head of a lion and an eagle and a man and, and then you talk about Isaiah in the Old Testament, who had a vision of being taken up to the third heaven, and seeing things and hearing things, and being sent back with a message. Or you read about even the Apostle Paul in the New Testament is Second Corinthians 11. He said, he had an out of body experience. He said, I was taken to heaven. And I was seeing, see theI saw things there, of which I cannot even speak, he said he couldn't find the words for it. So I think, in a lot of cases that the religions that people are raised in, were originally when the founders were there, they were originally trying to describe exactly the things that you and I are talking about right now. But then of course, later came the followers and they would take these insights and these visions and these out of body experiences, and this deep perception of reality and they built dogma and doctrines and rules and regulations and all the rest. Oh, It's a shame. But if you go back and look at it at the beginning, the experience of those who have at the beginning, I think you'll find that it's very similar to what we're talking about right now.
Everything Imaginable
That's why I always liked the, I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Heart Sutra?
Jim Willis
Yes.
Everything Imaginable
Where there’s like no eyes, no nose, no sound, no touch. You know, if that's the hook, you know, then trying to explain basically what we're talking about is the lack of all this. You can't say what it is. But you can kind of describe what is it isn’t Yeah.
Jim Willis
Yeah, and when you're there, it seems more real than this reality, doesn't it?. That's it. That's the reality right there.
Everything Imaginable
It's amazing. So one of the things I know about you, too, that we have in common is we're both musicians. And I know with me, it's actually, you know, some of my, some people call it flow, which is a term that I really kind of dislike, but I know and I sometimes, I would early on, oddly enough now, too, when I play music, and I just get the repetitious groove. You know, it's like, boom, an hour’s gone by and just like I wasn't even there.
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's, I'm absolutely committed to music has been a part of my life for 75 years now. And I'm absolutely convinced that one of the things that drew me to it, was that I sensed in music itself this, the vibration that I was talking about earlier, that comes from the source. And I think the old timers recognized it when thry talked about the music of the spheres, the music of coming from the stars from the heavens itself, and you find it in the Psalms, they had the, the mountains, clap their hands with joy and the trees sing, the whole vibration of music, but it. I think. Well, you know, and, and when you're talking about the repetition, you know, remember the old rock song coming out of the wet 60s or 70s. Give me the beat boys, free my soul, I want to get lost in your rock and roll and drift away. Shamans, shamans have been using drumming for 1000s of years to instill that and to open up that very part of the brain that was opened up I think when you had your epileptic seizure, and it can be, it can be wonderful when you just find yourself channeling something that's above you, I my, my first love has always been jazz. And there was a there was a night I played for, for years with a really
great quintet. And there was a night when we were all just, you know,
I mean, we always like playing with these guys. But this particular, this particular night, everything was just there, we, we knew what was happening. We weren't thinking we were just doing you know, and we got it all set. And it was we're given ideas back and forth, and rhythms and everything. It just clicked the whole thing. And we finished that set. I looked at the tenor sax guy standing next to me and I said, man, nothing like it. And he just shook his head. And he said, yeah, man, better, better than sex. What he didn't know was his microphone was still live and his wife was sitting in the front row. So I don't know, I don't know if he had an answer for himself that night or not. But it was that it was that kind of thing when it just, you know, where you're just you're not thinking, you're not, you know. Not, not that anybody can just stand up and do it. Because we all paid our dues. We all spent the time in a practice room, practicing the scales and learning until it just became a part of us. But after it became a part of us, we didn't have to think about it anymore. And I think that's the, that's the reality if, boy, if we could live our lives that way, just being in that moment. And being constantly in that feeling of creativity and of connectedness. What a way to live, huh?
Everything Imaginable
It's a great way. It's incredible. You know, like, like definitely like music, music and I think sound vibration, you know. There's a key there I think to some of the mysteries of life. I was even reading, I think like a black hole vibrates at the key of like B minor. It’s actually like one of the best keys I think, that's a bit of a skip to guitar, but it's like one of the coolest sounding keys that, what is.
Jim Willis
It's funny that you should say that because I've, I've heard I've heard people say that the the, the whole universe you know resonates and that, that, that's not necessarily the key of B minor, but low B comes in over and over and over again, I have no doubt that there's something going on there. When you stop to think about it, though, I talked about coming out of the source and I used the word energy, we there. we, the energy comes up. Well, what is energy, but vibration, and what is vibration, but, we experience vibration. When we hear different vibrations, we identify those are different pitches. I had an out of body experience one time, where I was finding myself going, it was very early in my, in my career of out-of-body experiences, I found myself going through this, this tunnel, and I, I sensed all these vibrations all around me in the tunnel. And I remember hearing it as music. Me too. And I didn't I didn't. I don't remember saying anything. But my wife was in the next room. And she heard me say, it's music. It's music, she heard me actually say those words. And, and I think probably, that's one of the things that, that, that music is. And again, the old timers recognized it. Johann Sebastian Bach once said, no music shouldn't be written that not written to the glory of God. And I really believe that he could have just said no music should not be written that’s not written to the glory of source, because music is what it's all about. Music is vibration. And when the, when the music stops, the vibration has stopped. And we are living within the music of the spheres I. I don't think we can get enough of it. I really don't. When I meditate, I listen to music. I happened to listen to Hemi sync music, which was a technology that was invented by Robert Monroe at The Monroe Institute, founder of The Monroe Institute. I studied there for a week with William Buhlman, who I think is one of the great, great teachers in the world today, when it comes to out of body experience. And there, we used to use Hemi sync music, which is a complicated thing to try to describe. But basically, what it does is put the two hemispheres of your brain left and right in sync, so to speak, so that they're with for lack of a better term, it's over overly simplistic, but so they are vibrating together. And I put on the earphones, and I listen to this music, and I meditate and I just find it, able to sometimes, just not all the time, I wish I could but most of the time, or some of the time I just drift away and get our minds away from all that noise and busyness that this world throws at us. It's a, it's a tough world for that. Yeah.
Everything Imaginable
You know, I've only gone on like three days silent retreats for Buddhist meditation. And when I go like people like how, you know, how can you not talk? I'm like one, it's nice not to talk. But it's also like for me, in the silence for some reason, the first thing I hear inside my head is music.. There's always just music inside, in there, you know?
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah. Well, and it's interesting that you said, you know, these three-day retreats because that that was the key to the vision quest in ancient Americans, with their young men would go out into the wilderness, and they would spend three days on a solitary retreat, three days, just living there and staying there sitting in one place. And at the end of three days, usually, their Totem animal would come to them. That happened to me. My, my Totem animal came after three days of partial retreat. And I think that's what we're missing in this life today. We need to do more of that, where we're so busy. And so, the noise and the stuff that comes out is so much. People say I'll just go for a walk. Well, a walk is great, but it doesn't do it. It does take, it does take time. And three days seems to be that key that down through 1000s of years of history. Our ancestors understood that that's what we had to do in order to experience reality on the other side.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, I mean, I would definitely like to do, like a month or more if I could, but unfortunately, yeah, right now I don't have that means. But hopefully one day I'll get, you know, try.
Jim Willis
Well, I'll tell you.
Everything Imaginable
Because I think, three days I'm able to scratch the surface.
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah, that's about it. I really recommend retirement. It took me to get to retirement. I wasn't financially ready. But we discovered we were going to make it work. That's all there was to it. Yeah. I often tell people If I had discovered what retirement, how good retirement was, I would have done it 30 years ago, you know,
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, it's great to be able to pursue some of our passions. That's what I love about doing the podcast too, because I learn so much from my guests.
Jim Willis
Well, there's, there's always somebody out there who can teach us, isn't there? It's just a wonderful, wonderful thing. Wonderful thing.
Everything Imaginable
Always. It's good to be able to share it with other people.Yeah.
Jim Willis
Yeah. Yeah, that was the whole idea. The, the shamanic experience, though, which was the basis of out of body experiences 1000s, upon 1000s of years ago, certain gifted people of the tribe, were able to leave the body and go out into that reality. But they didn't just do it for their own trip. You know, they just didn't come back and say, oh, wow, that was cool. And tell people about it. They did it for a purpose. Their objective was to bring back something that would bring back healing, that would bring back balance, that bring back a message. It was it was thought really blasphemous, to do a shamanic journey and come back with nothing except a big, you know, a fun, a fun trip. And so that was the whole purpose was to go, but then it was to come back. Joseph Campbell called it the hero's journey. The hero would go forth and have an experience. But the hero always had to come back into reality again, and he would share the results of that experience. That's precisely what I think as we talked earlier, about what life is, I think, the idea of coming out here, making the trip all of us heroes, and then going back with that experience, and growing the source or evolving the source. I think it's really, really important.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, I do too. Have you ever like, you know, taken LSD or mushrooms or anything like that?
Jim Willis
you know, I never have. ayahuasca. You know, button mushrooms and everything else I never have. And yet it's a very rich shamanic tradition. I have friends who study with shamans down in Peru, who regularly use ayahuasca. Graham Hancock's book, British journalist, a British researcher on the supernatural, I think has a wonderful book talking about his own experiences. And I know that during the 60s, a lot of my friends were just beginning to discover LSD. I missed out on all of that, because I was in a practice and I was learning how to be a trombone player. So I never have and I've never used psychedelics of any kind. I've never, I've never used drumming to any great extent. But I have used like I say, Hemi sync. And so I have no, you know, I have no qualms with those that do I just haven't done it myself.
Everything Imaginable
Right. Yeah. I mean, I don't do that stuff anymore, obviously. When I was a teenager, I did it for fun.
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, it's, it's it's all in our brains, our brains have evolved to deliver reality to us in a certain way. And as a result, we're facing, you know, 1000s 2, 3, 4, 100,000 years of evolutionary work to bring us to the point where we have a place where we are right now. And I think sometimes, our brains have to, well, we have to open up places of them that are still there. It's just that they've atrophied due to disuse, and they can be awakened. Now, I'm saying, don't do it lightly. Since I started having out of body experiences, I have to say that there is one downside. And that's that my dream life is so much more vivid and stays with me so much more. And it can, it can be really tough, it can really hurt your sleep, you know. And I think that the only reason for that is that part of the brain that experiences dreams. And I think that dreams are sometimes they arise from the brain, but I think there are some dreams where we actually are out of body and we leave our bodies in our sleep, or at least we are entangled with the reality outside. But whatever it is, that part of the brain when it wakes up. Ah, boy, it can be tough. When you, when you wake up in the morning and you feel where you have been in your dream is so real, that it's even more real than where you are here and it, it can be disturbing, you have to learn how to deal with it. So, I like to tell people to be very, very, very, very careful, proceed slowly. Which is one of the reasons I haven't used psychedelics at all too, because I'm certain, certain that they can offer, they could offer a shortcut. And probably some people could maybe even benefit from it. But I, I'm just afraid that I would not be spiritually emotionally ready to handle that kind of a shortcut, I'm more of a stick your toe in the water before you jump in kind of guy.
Everything Imaginable
So, what is your preferred method for OBE, out of body experience?
Jim Willis
Well, it's a I use a meditation technique that you have to find a time of day when it's really the most important thing you do. I've had a lot of people say, I'm going to try to fit in meditation, you can't fit it in. If it's not the most important thing you do in the day, then it's not your number one priority, it's as simple as that. So I had to find a time and finding the right time can be tricky. Because if you find a time when you're really tired, at the end of the day, you can try to meditate and then just fall asleep. On the other hand, if you try to find a time when you just wake up, like many people do, then you're thinking about the day and you're thinking about all the things that go and all this kind of stuff. So, the first thing I had to do was come up with a time. I had to make a decision and I had to stick to it. William Gilman used to teach us that anybody can have about, an out of body experience. But it has to, number one be your first priority. And number two, it has to be your priority for 30 days, 30 minutes a day. And he said, if you can find that time and stick to it and have the discipline 30 minutes a day for 30 days, you will probably have an out of body experience. And I've got to say he was right. But if I had stopped it day 28, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation. Surprisingly, the only time that I could find to meditate was, are you ready for this? Three o'clock in the morning. I don't know why it was, but I was always waking up either five minutes after three or five minutes before three.
Everything Imaginable
The witching hour.
Jim Willis
And I found, at that time, my body was rested enough. Where it was it was you know, I could keep fully alert. But it was also I was restful enough that I could do it. So, I made the decision. And I stuck to it. And for 30 straight days, I was up at three o'clock in the morning, I would get up out of bed, I’d go turn on Hemi sync music. And, you know put on the earphones and I would sit in my chair and I would meditate. And you have to develop a system. This particular method that I'm describing now is described in my book, The Quantum Akashic Field, by the way, if anybody's interested, but you have to develop a system. And for me it was getting out of bed going somewhere else sitting in my chair at three o'clock in the morning, putting on the music and trying to meditate and anybody who has tried to meditate will tell you how difficult it is. Your mind just goes into hydrive, hyperdrive. And you're thinking about this and you're thinking about that. And you have to, here's where it becomes really zen like, you have to try very hard to become and how do you become? By not trying. It's that kind of thing. You have to focus, focus, and focus some more. And it's not easy. The first week, you're gonna want to give up I guarantee it. Second week, probably the same thing. By the third week, you'll start to have glimmers of once in a while. You will sense something going on and you don't know what it is. In my case, I was very conscious after, if I could obtain a few moments of one point meditation, I was very conscious of, it seems like my body was filled with water and it had all sloshed to one side. And the first time I actually got out of body and was able to actually see my physical body, reclining in this chair where I meditated. I, my first thought was man, I made it and I snapped right back into the body right away. And then I fell victim to the great trap. The great trap was having done this once I figured well, if I could just repeat what I did before, then it'll happen again, and it just doesn't work that way. You have to stay calm. One of the things that I have that I really recommend to people, I sometimes do this, and I sometimes don't I, I should do it all the time, and I just don't. And that's keep a journal. You know, I'm a writer, the last thing I want to do is write, when I have something like this happen, I don't want to write it down. I write all the time. But if you keep a journal, all of a sudden, you can look back at, my journals now go back to the year 2012, when my first entries were made, and I go back and I read, and I read those experiences. And then I, I would have forgotten them totally just like a forgotten dream. When you wake up, you know, I would have forgotten about them. But keeping a journal, you can see things that that come to the surface. Themes repeat over and over again, when you're, when you're meditating, you've got to concentrate on a what I call stillness of heart, and stillness of mind, and stillness of body. And then when you do that, and all of a sudden, you realize that you have, you are getting out of body that something is happening, then you find yourself coming across things that are guaranteed to really make you sit up and take notice. First time I ever met an entity from another dimension, a spirit guide, I was so shocked that I just saw it and then boom, I was right back in the body again. And it took me a week before I could get back in that same frame of mind, cuz I kept on saying I want to meet, I want to meet the spirit guide. again, I want to meet the spirit guide. But then I began to realize that I'm not just talking about this woowoo stuff. It's real. And it's even there in science on different dimensions, different dimensions of reality, different universes. And they're just as interested in meeting us as we are in meeting them. And you can do it. So, when you say a method, a haphazard as it is, that's about the closest I can come.
Everything Imaginable
And what was the name of the book? Where can my listeners find it?
Jim Willis
I'm sorry, what was that?
Everything Imaginable
Oh, the, the book where you have this method written. What’s the name of it? Where can my listeners pick it up?
Jim Willis
Oh, the, it's called The Quantum Akashic Field: A Guide to Out-of-Body Experiences for the Astral Traveler. First part of the book is all designed to the theory of it. Well, I tried to go into the science of out of body experience, because I really do believe it's not this woowoo mystical stuff. I really believe that the Akashic field and out of body experiences are just part of a science that we have not yet figured out. I think it's real. So, the first part of the book examines that and then the second part of the book, it gets practical. And that's teaching my own methods. And I make sure to make that I emphasize over and over again, this is not the way to have an out of body experience, it was my way. And if that helps anybody, that's great. But it's, it's in The Quantum Akashic Field: A Guide to Out-of-Body Experiences for the Astral Traveler, and you can find it on my website, which is JimWillis.net and you can find all my books there, for that matter. And anybody who wants to contact me through my website, there's a contact page, and I love to talk to people who find me through there and have conversations So feel free.
Everything Imaginable
Awesome. What was I going to say? Itstill had to do with the out of body experience. Oh, I know, it was. How about the cultists that use like, spirits and stuff like that? That practice goes way back too. I don't know if this is so much shamanic. You know. But I mean, what is your opinion on that? You know, like, I know, like, like in the religious world, you know, they'll say, oh, black magic, magic. It's just the devil's work. I disagree with that, you know, I don't think anything is the devil’s work. It's.
Jim Willis
Yeah. I think we have to come back to the whole idea of duality again. Reality is what we bring to it. And what we bring back. I say in my book over and over again, and I've only had one bad out of body experience. Matter of fact, I never had a bad out of body experience at all, until I was reading the book called Supernatural Gods that came out a couple of years ago from Visible Ink. And I made the bold thing that you know, no problem with supernatural experience because I've never had a bad one. And within a day, I'd had a bad out of body experience. I think, I have to emphasize, first of all, I think the primary, the overall undergirding of the entire cosmos is discovered in words like love and compassion, and understanding, and forgiveness and all those things. I think that's the basic of it all. But I also have to say that when we leave the source, and when we come through the Higgs field and develop a material perception realm, we develop the capacity for both good and bad. And I think it's possible for us to take that bad with us to a certain point, I think there is a barrier that the universe will not let us cross. But I think we can do that. And the experience that I had, I'm sure that the only evil that I discovered on the other side was evil that I had brought with me. And perhaps in the long run, that wasn't even evil. Perhaps I had to bring it with me so that I could identify it, and thereby destroy it. I'm not sure. People, people say the same thing. You know, they say, Well, you know, you're talking about everybody being good. And coming from the source. Do you think Adolf Hitler was good? Well, there's no doubt about it, that there are people, many of them some to a great degree, like get off Hitler, and some to a lesser degree, like our next-door neighbor, who don't necessarily have the best interest of other people at heart, and they have they, their lifetime experience does seem to fall over on that side of the evil, the evil side of duality. And so, I think we have to be careful of that. Now, I know that there are cults out there that really look into the cult for the purpose of using what is sometimes called black magic, or evil magic and that kind of thing. And those kinds of things, I had to say we have to be very careful. But on the other hand, I also think we have to say that this stuff is not all of the devil. There are great angelic beings out there who we need to communicate with. And, and so I think we just can't put everything in a lump sum and say, oh, this is of the devil. And this is not, a cult is evil, and all this kind of thing. I don't, I don't think we could do that. Christianity at the beginning was the Jesus call. It was a group of Jewish people who believed that Messiah had come now whether they were right or not, that's going to be for other people to decide. But it was a Jesus cult. And it turned into Christianity, which some people might say is a cult today, I don't know. But at any rate, I think we have to be careful with those words. And I agree with you when you say, let's not just you know, jump in and make a blanket condemnation.
Everything Imaginable
When it comes to good and evil, do you think that there is an entity that is the devil?
Jim Willis
Ah, wow. There certainly is a strong sense of, of evil, because we live in duality, in a world of duality. And certainly a lot of entities have. takenadvantage of that.Whether there is one devil, you know, boy, you can get into some real theological discussions about that. Our whole concept of the devil has changed so much from where it first arises in the written history. And that takes us all the way back to Samaria the, the Gilgamesh legends and, and, and everything else. And it leads us into the, the theories, the different theories of the Anunnaki. And the two, well, Zecharia Sitchin actually believed that they were entities from outer space. We were, who were two, two actually, you know, Enlil and Enki. One was the good being one was the bad being. And we find that in Hopi legends that the hero twins, one good one bad. We find it in many, many different legends about how we find the good and the bad in the past. One is seen as the Jesus figure so to speak, and the other as the devil figure. That whole idea about Jesus going out into the wilderness for 40 days and confronting the devil. Who was he confronting? Was he confronting an actual entity or was he confronting up one part of his own dualistic nature? The part that in the biblical poetry was thrown out of heaven, so to speak. I'm afraid if we start down that line, down that route will be here another couple of days, because that's a huge, huge topic. And I certainly can't. Although I have a lot of opinions, I certainly can't say this is the way it is, you know?
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, I've been watching a show on Netflix called Lucifer. And, and in this show, you know, like, like, there's a different version. You know, he's an angel who originally rebells against his father ended up being sent down to rule hell. But, but, but the premise is, the show is, at the end of the day, he's still an angel. Yeah, you know, in the following part of the show is like, like, he's going through this process now of sort of redeeming himself, you know, and learning that that he was made for that particular purpose. It was just all one learning process for him.
Jim Willis
Yeah. And, and don't we find that within both of us all the time? You know, in one sense, we were kicked out of the source, because we made a courageous decision to enter into a world of individuality. But within that individuality, all of a sudden, we found duality. And there's the good and there's the bad. There's the, the angel, and there's the devil. And this has been the subject of mythologies, as I said earlier, going all the way back to the Samarians and the Gilgamesh legends, the ancient Mesopotamians, we find the same thing in Egypt. We find the same thing in Peru over and over again, these, these stories just keep coming back. So, I think people have been trying to grapple with this whole idea for a long, long time.
Everything Imaginable
Yes. And this is a perfect segway into your other book, Hidden History: Ancient Aliens and the Suppressed Origins of Civilization.
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah.
Everything Imaginable
Can you tell me a little bit about what the premise of that book is, and what prompted you to write it?
Jim Willis
Sure. For many years, I was a college professor and I taught world religions. And I noticed something about teaching that I have noticed in my own life, for a long time. And that's the, how stuff that we're taught in the classroom growing up, it can often change, it can often grow. Things that we’re taught, we discover 10 years later, are just simply not true anymore. And that's not a problem. I think that's great, because I think knowledge has to evolve. I think the problem comes when we are taught certain things and said and taught that this is the way it is, period. And then we're tested on that knowledge. We're given a test and, and our results of the test determine whether we get a good mark or a bad mark. Good students get good marks, bad students get bad marks. And then all of a sudden, we discovered that those things that got us that good mark, 10 years later, that's just simply not true anymore. Take as a classic example, I was taught ever since grade school, that the first Americans were called the Clovis people. And it was a doctrine that was set in stone. And we were told that they, these early people came over from Siberia across the Siberian landbridge. And they came down when the glaciers melted back. And they came down into a virgin continent where no one has ever been maybe 12,000, 16,000 years ago. And they migrated down to a place near Clovis, Mexico. And there we discovered the first evidence of them, and it was the famous Clovis point. So they were called the Clovis people. And we were told these were the first Americans, period. That's all there is to it. We were tested on the dates, How long ago? How do we know this? How do we know that? Well, now the Clovis theory, the Clovis. It's called Clovis only. The Clovis theory is now in shreds. And there's honest archaeologists and anthropologists who are now looking at the history of America, that goes back at least 50,000 years and possibly even now 110,000 years, of people being here on this continent, and we're discovering great, great evidence for this. So, when I first started teaching this, this theory in terms of anthropology and world religions, I would have to talk to my students and I loved the teaching, but I loved the interaction with the students. What I hated was at the end of the semester, I had to give her a grade because the school demanded that I did, which meant I had to give a test. And so people would have to take a test and like everything else growing up, in my own life, I had to do the same thing to other people. That was done to me, you get a good mark, you're a good student, you get a bad mark, you're a bad student. And I just didn't like it. And so when it came time to write Hidden History, I wanted to write about all of these things that we have been taught that are set in stone. How did the universe begin, the Big Bang? How did life begin? Well, it went from life grew from no- life and a bubbly pool of scum somewhere. How did civilization, how did civilization began? Well, that's easy began in Mesopotamia began in Egypt roughly 6,7,8 1000 years ago. It was since then, all those theories are now being questioned. So I wanted to write Hidden History, because I wanted to write the predominant theory of how all these things happen. But then I wanted to expand to look at the other theories that may not have as much academic credential, but they're still being argued by reputable scientists. There is a byproduct of this though, I discovered some just heart-rending stories. For instance, take Hugh Everett. Hugh Everett was one of the great physicists, who ever lived he, he gave us what we now call the multi verse, He was the first to talk about this whole thing. And yet, he was literally blackballed. from physics, he couldn't get a job teaching, he couldn't get a job experimenting. He couldn't get a job writing. He had to take a job with the federal government, and it may be a good thing that he did, because it was his reading. It was his teaching that really led us to the whole idea of Mutual Assured Destruction, which may have saved the world during the Cuban Missile Crisis. But Hugh Everett died a broken man thinking that his ideas were just crazy and being told that there was nothing. And now, virtually every physicist out there when they talk about Hugh Everett, now that it's too late, because he's dead. They speak of them in these reverent tones. And I could talk about so many others. Warren Moorehead, for instance, on the red paint people theory that he had. So many of these people died, thinking that they were wrong, thinking that their ideas were, were discredited. And now all of a sudden, they're accepted. So, it isn't the idea of our knowledge growing that bothers me, that I think is wonderful, knowledge has to evolve. I think the problem is the way we teach it and the way we tell people, this is the way it is, period. And that's it. You can get in all kinds of problems. In in Egypt, when you study the the, the pyramids, you go over there right now, and Egyptologists will tell you exactly when the pyramids were built. They'll tell you exactly how the pyramids were built. They said there are no mysteries, we have all of the answers. Well, when I was in Egypt, going through the pyramids, for the first time, our guide was taking us back down this long tunnel underneath the pyramids, and I noticed there were these electric wires going alongside of the path. And their purpose was to, to light the, to provide power for the lights that were making it possible for us to go underneath the pyramid. So I found myself saying well, I wonder how they worked in here in the pitch dark before there was electricity. So I looked up at the, the roof of this tunnel we were in and I looked for signs of soot or smoke or something. You know, maybe they had torches. There wasn't any. And so, I said to the guy who was so self-centered, so self-assured all day long. I said to him, he was just walking right in front of me. I said, how did they see the work back here before electricity. And he actually turned away from me walked away and mumbled something like, oh, they must have had some kind of a light source. And that's all he said. I couldn't believe it. For two days, he had been telling us all of the answers and everything else. And here is a basic, basic question that he couldn't answer. And if I hadn't pushed him on it, he never would have even brought it up. And I find that that is so often the case in academia. Believe me, I am not trying to put down academics in terms of their research and their work and, and opening up new things. But I do put down academia when it insists it's my way or the highway and this is the way it happened. Because truth is, we just don't know these things. That's what Hidden History, my book is all about.
Everything Imaginable
How far back do you think humans existed? I think that's a big question right now, Mickey FIDE [AS1]and stuff like, you know, almost like 250 thousand years.
Jim Willis
Yeah, I know. If you had asked me that question 10 years ago, I would have said, oh, everybody knows humans evolved 200,000 years ago, before that there was Neanderthal. We didn't even know about Denisovans back then. We certainly didn't know about the, the two new species that down in New Zealand and around that area. We didn't know any of that stuff. But then all of a sudden, out of the blue. Well, here's the evidence. Now human beings are 300,000 years old. Within the last couple of weeks, there's evidence percolating out that I'm just following with all kinds of bated breath,tThat said all maybe now we have to start looking four or 500,000 years ago. So, if you'd asked me that question, 10 years ago, I would have said, Oh, humans evolved 200,000 years ago. Now. When I look at human species, maybe not species just like Homosapien. But I'm thinking we have to not, now start talking not in terms of 1000s of years, but perhaps in terms of millions of years. And on good days, perhaps even billions of years. I think we, consciousness has had a material existence, and sentience as a material existence that can contemplate itself. They may not have looked like Homosapiens, they may not have looked at, but I think we can go way, way back a lot farther than anybody ever expected before.
Everything Imaginable
I agree. What is your slant on Darwinisms? You know, that's another thing to us over the last 10 or 15 years, a lot of holes have been poked in it, with the finding of like these hobbit people, you know that the elongated skulls that have the different cracks at the top? So we know. Well, you know, they’re pretty elongated.
Jim Willis
Well, yeah, even, even 220 years ago, 150 years ago, for that matter. Well, for that matter, right up through the time of the Civil War, we made a, science and religion made a huge mistake. And they put us into an either or position, either Darwinism, or creationism, one or the other. And all I can say is maybe when the whole final theory is figured out, maybe there's room for both. Maybe there is evolution within species, I think we have to admit that there is because the, the little dog that we have running around at our feet doesn't look anything like a wolf. But we know that way back when she was, you know, that kind of thing. So yeah, we evolved. On the other hand, is Darwinism sufficient to explain life and in all of its complexity? I just don't think so. So I don't think it's a matter of again, either, or, I think we have to say we have to have room for both. The Buddha would say accept both and go to that, through the middle ground to that place that embraces them both.
Everything Imaginable
Yes, I agree. If the first species have been around for so long, do you think? Do you believe that it like the idea of aliens, you know, doing genetic modifications to create us?
Jim Willis
I'm not going to close my mind to anything. Frankly, Gary, I'm just really not. When it comes to the whole idea of aliens, and I talked about this in two or three books now. I think we have to get rid of again, that whole question of either and or, either there are aliens from off our planet or there or not. And then we say, well, if there are aliens, and if they have been ancient aliens that are past, either they come from this cosmos, or they come from other dimensions, or both. And I just say once again, yeah, both. I really do think, I know that there's a lot of physics types that are going to be very distraught at the idea of nuts and bolts, flying saucers conquering the laws of physics to traveling the immense distances that we have to travel. And so I know they're gonna have a hard time believing in real solid nuts and bolts. You know, flying saucers. On the other hand. What was the very first thing we did? That as soon as we could break the bonds of Earth? What, What did we do? We set off the Voyager And what was in the Voyager it was Carl Sagan famous Golden Record that says, This is who we are. Here we are. Hi. Now, if we did that, I can't imagine that conscious sentient life couldn't exist on other planets somewhere else in the universe, perhaps billions of years ago, who did the very same thing we did. And also, I have to face the fact that there is just so much circumstantial evidence and people taking pictures, and even now I'm following this in the New York Times, I love it. With the Pentagon releasing this information about alien materials and metals that were not made on this planet. Well, where did they come from? And so, I have to say that these immense distances that we say are physically impossible to travel, I think we have to add one word to that sentence, there are physical distances that we are not able to follow or pass through yet. I think the time will come when we may discover that we are just as capable of doing all things of course, I'm a Trekkie. So, I believe in warp speed, you know, who else but on the other hand, besides the idea of Ancient Aliens, who are of this cosmos, and I think we have to say, Yeah, but we also have to experience this whole idea of other dimensional entities, I know they're there, because in out of body experiences, I've seen them. And so I have to believe that given the kind of evidence that not only I can, I have seen with my own two metaphorical eyes and out of body experience. But with all of the oral history that has come down through us about meeting these other entities, I have to believe that aliens could also come from dimensions that are parallel to us. And if we can learn to do out of body experiences and see them, then obviously, they can do out of body experience and see us.
Everything Imaginable
Exactly. I’ve been saying that, you know, people like what?. You know, maybe we can't, maybe they can't travel here in a complete physical form. But maybe they can astral travel here. Well, you know, in a non-physical form,
Jim Willis
It's the craziest thing of all the people who can hear us talking like this and say, No, it can't be, probably in a good number of them are going out of the Christian tradition, which you're going to say, we just don't believe in entities stepping out of another dimension into our own. Right, that's, that's crazy. And yet, at Christmas time, they will stand up and saying, angels we have seen on high, or Hark, the herald angels sing Glory to the newborn King, and they will tell the story of the angel Gabriel, stepping right out of another dimension and speaking to Mary, or speaking to Daniel in the Old Testament, or speaking to Mohammed in the cave where he was meditating. What is this, except entities coming from another dimension with a message for us? So, right again, it's right there in the great religions of the world that this has happened in the past? Yeah. And, and is happening probably right now.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah. And now we have a little bit of quantum physics to even back some of these up., It gives them a scientific basis.
Jim Willis
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I really think that dimensional travel and entities from another dimension is not just a metaphysical or supernatural idea. I think it's, as I said earlier, science that we haven't yet figured out. I think it was Herbert Clark, perhaps, who said that any technology that is sufficiently advanced is going to appear like magic to us. And I think that's probably what we're facing. We just don't understand it yet. That doesn't mean it's not happening. Because there's too much evidence that it is happening.
Everything Imaginable
Yes, yeah. I mean, I, I guess it was a couple months ago, I interviewed somebody from the Golden Dawn. And, you know, one of the things that fascinates me about the history of the coal[AS2] is, I mean, it started out as writing. Somebody writes down something on a piece of paper, some guy takes it to somebody else and goes what it means. You know, and that was considered like magic. Yeah, yeah.
Jim Willis
Yeah, yeah. There have been, there’s just been too many, too many experiences of this. When we talk about when the army was experimenting with this stuff, and when Skip Edward [AS3] actually went to Monroe Institute, where he met Robert Monroe. He was actually doing remote viewing experiments for the army. And they found some of their people who were able to do remote viewing and actually spy on the position of Russian submarines and all this kind of thing. Now, what would have happened if when he spotted these Russian submarines in the, in the process of ethereal travel? Then what would have happened? Had there been someone on the submarine who was equally gifted? And could have seen him?
Everything Imaginable
Yes.
Jim Willis
And here we have two entities meeting each other in a plane that we do not yet understand. I think it's entirely possible. And I think it's practical. I, I don't think we just need to look at this stuff is this all woowoo mystic stuff that's entertaining. I got a call one night, middle of the night, three, four o'clock in the morning from a nurse in a hospital, who told me, a good friend of yours is dying in the hospital. He's not expected to end, to get through the night. And he needs to talk to you. He's been asking for you. Can you come by any chance? And I said, Sure, of course. So, I got up out of bed, got my clothes on, got my car, drove down to the hospital. And sure enough, here was my friend who was in the hospital bed. He was quite a bit older than me. I was probably 15, 20 years younger at the time. He was quite a bit older than me, but he was facing what could be his last night in, on Earth. Now this man had led an exemplary life, he had a doctorate or two, he had started a university as a founder of a university. He was a pillar of the community. He was a pillar of our church and Deacon of our church, greatest guy in the world, amassed a small fortune along the way that he used to help other people. Just, you couldn't imagine a better life. And as I stood holding his hand, I was close enough to him where I realized that he didn't, you know, I didn't have to beat around the bush with him. And so, I just said to him, are you ready to go? He started to cry. And he said, Jim, I've done a lot of stuff in my life, the one thing I didn't do, was prepare for this moment. He wasn't ready to die. Now we were lucky, he made it through that night, he made it through 10 more, and I spent part of the next 10 days, each part of, part of everyday over the next 10 days with him. All I can think of is, how many people do I know in this life who are not ready to die, who are not ready to face these big questions? They put them off. Because they seem, oh, it's too difficult to talk about these things. Oh, it's too difficult to think about these things. All these things are beyond me. What kind of practical sense would it take if we, every single one of us could begin to realize what's really important, and to concentrate on that stuff, rather than the stuff that fills our days? So, I think what we've been talking about for the last what, hour and a half now, I think is of immense practical importance, not just spiritual, religious, or even metaphysical importance, and certainly not just entertainment. It may be the answer of studying this kind of stuff, could be the path that's going to take us to the promised land, away from all of this stuff that we've created, that's destroying the world around us and destroying our countries and destroying our physical lives and everything else. To me, it's immensely practical. And I'm really glad to have the opportunity to talk about these things with someone such as yourself.
Everything Imaginable
Thank you. I'm glad to have you because I feel if people could let go of the fear.
Jim Willis
Yeah. Yeah.
Everything Imaginable
Anything would be possible for the for the human species, if we just let go of that one thing. And it is mostly the fear of death.
Jim Willis
Yeah. Yeah.
Everything Imaginable
And death is just something not to be feared. I don't mean to be morbid, but, you know, like, like, first time I, my mom passed away, I guess, about five years ago. And I didn't know what to expect. And I was afraid, you know, and when she was dying, and I just sat with her and I was holding her hand. She just stopped breathing. And honestly, it was like this super calm, it was just, it wasn't traumatizing. You know what I mean? It was the complete opposite. There was so much peace. You know?
Jim Willis
Yeah. I think that's, I think that's what we all have to look forward to. And it's a shame, that we can't carry that piece with us through all of the human manufactured traumas and dramas that we create around ourselves. It's a, It's a shame. It really is. On the other hand, I can say, you know, you talked about not wanting to be morbid, I'm, I don't say this with any more, you know, morbid feelings at all myself, but I kind of look forward to it, I really do. I've been to the other side, I've seen it, I know what it's there, what, what it's like, and I'm, I'm looking forward to it, I really am. There comes a time, when we realize we've done what we need to get done. And we just want to go home. And I've done a lot of long-distance biking, gone cross country a couple of times and on a bicycle, and up and down north and south and east and west, both. I've done a lot of hiking on the Appalachian Trail. I can always say that, a day or two before I know the trip is going to wind up, I always just want to say, boy, I wish it was over, you know, I know I have another day or two to go. It's been great. I wouldn't have wanted to miss it. But I'm ready. You know, that kind of thing. And that's kind of the way I'm feeling about life right now. I'm, you know, 70, at 75 years old, you look back at what you've done, and you realize you can still have a couple of good years left, and that's fine. But when you know what's out there, and you know, the trip, you know, the journey is there. And it's been worth it. There's a part of you that just says, wow, I want to go home. It's time, you know,
Everything Imaginable
But you definitely, you know, you're carrying a very important message to people. You know, I mean, anybody who reads your books or hears this podcast, you know, it could change their lives, you know. It could take away that fear. And I think you take away one person's fear. And people see that change in one person. Hopefully that can be just as contagious as like the COVID virus, you know what I mean?
Jim Willis
Yeah, thank you, Gary. I really do appreciate that. It's the good thing about living out in the woods is that we don't see anybody for days on end, sometimes. The bad thing about living out in the woods is that we don't see anybody for days on end, sometimes. You can feel, you can start to feel sometimes that your life just hasn't been worthwhile, you know, and you just haven't accomplished anything. And then when you hear something like that, it's a reminder that you know, you never know. You just have to, you have to take it one day at a time and just use the days do what, what's there and look forward to it. But, thank you. This has been, this has been great. I really do appreciate this, Gary.
Everything Imaginable
I do too. I really loved this conversation.
Jim Willis
Thank you. Thank you. It's been great for me too hope we can do it again sometime.
Everything Imaginable
Absolutely. And one more time, just tell my listeners where they can find you.
Jim Willis
Sure. The website, probably a good place to start aany It's www.JimWillis.net
I also have a Facebook page at JimWillis.sauthor. And then there's a YouTube channel that has a lot of different things that we've done. Right now my, my, my daughter handles all the, the tech part of this and my scheduling and everything else. And she and I are working on a series of videos right now, on dowsing for the beginner, dowsing for earth energy. And some of those are going to be appearing on the YouTube video along with some of the other talks that I've done in the past at various places. And once again, if you find me on the website, go to the contact page. Drop me a line. I'd love to hear from you.
Everything Imaginable
Yes, definitely. And I'll definitely also, in the notes of this podcast, I will post the links.
Jim Willis
Oh wonderful.
Everything Imaginable
For my Listeners, so they can just click on the links if they're accessing you, on the internet.
Jim Willis
Sure, Jen, Jen can set you up with all of those and she's the one that that keeps me on the straight and narrow because to me a computer is just a big typewriter. I really have to thank you for keeping me in into all the rest of that stuff.
Everything Imaginable
Well, we got you on zoom.
Jim Willis
Well, there you go. So just, just for the fun of it. We mentioned hidden histories. If any of your listeners are interested, next September, we're leading a trek a tour to Turkey and Gobekli Tepe. We're going to visit where civilization began. And we're going to meet at Istanbul. I'm doing this in conjunction with Dr. Micki [AS4]Pistorius who is with Ancient Origins. She's my editor there, and she and I will be leading this trip. And if anybody is interested in Gobekli, Tepe, or Istanbul, or the birthplace of Abraham, or any of those old places, they're all there. It's advertised on the website. And I invite you to go to the Ancient Origin’s website, and check out the tour, going to be a fascinating tour over there. We're going to do a little dowsing, and talking in depth about a lot of the things that you and I talked about today. So, I hope some of your listeners can join us.
Everything Imaginable
Yeah, that's like a dream come true, kind of trip there.
Jim Willis
Well, hope, hope we can hope we can have a good have, a good group. We're looking forward to it. We really, we were scheduled to go in just a couple of weeks, this September. But obviously the way things are in the world right now, it just didn't work out. So we had to put it off for a year. So, it'll be next September, plenty of time to plan.
Everything Imaginable
That is awesome. All right. Well, thank you for being on my show.
Jim Willis
Thank you.
Everything Imaginable
As I said, I totally loved talking to you.
Jim Willis
Thank you. Appreciate it. We'll let we'll talk again., I hope.
Everything Imaginable
Absolutely.
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